GFCI Breaker is Code for EV Charging

[jstjohnz]

After doing a bit more research I think I have answered my own question. I don't see why EV charging equipment would not operate on a circuit protected by a GFCI breaker. What MAY happen is nuisance tripping of the GFCI breaker but this is unlikely if the GFCI breaker is operating properly.

The EV connectors do have GFCI protection built in. Unlike a standard GFCI breaker or receptacle it can auto-reset after a time delay.
There is an additional level of protection to make sure that the safety ground wire is connected. This is done by allowing a small amount of current to flow from each 'hot' wire to ground. If ground is open no current will flow and this is a fault. It is this test current that could potentially trip a GFCI breaker although the amount of current is well below the standard GFCI breaker threshold.

 

[Rocky_H]

People charge all the time from 15A and 20A 120V receptacles with no issues, and most likely those are GFCI protected if in a garage. Why no reported issues with those?

You haven't looked. This is a very frequently reported problem, with threads like these:

Problems charging at 110v on GFCI circuit

GFCI Outlet Tripping Sometimes

Issues with 110v gfic outlets

GFI keeps tripping even with nothing plugged in

Any Issues Using GFCI Breakers for Charging Circuit?

Tripping circuit breaker

GFCI trips when charging starts

Another Breaker Tripping thread

 

[Ck90211]

All the talk of over tripping due to GFCI breakers + GFCI devices is nonsense. Most hair dryer cords have GFCI, and all bathroom outlets should be on GFCI or have GFCI breakers. So when properly wired they only trip to save you not annoy you.

I understand and agree with not over spending on needless things, but if you can afford a tesla or anything that can take advantage of latest 240v 50+ amp charging, you can afford a 70 amp gfci breaker, a reputable/listed level 2 charger, 4 awg wires in proper conduit and the right outlet/outlet box for the environment it's in.

 

[GHammer]

All the talk of over tripping due to GFCI breakers + GFCI devices is nonsense. Most hair dryer cords have GFCI, and all bathroom outlets should be on GFCI or have GFCI breakers. So when properly wired they only trip to save you not annoy you.

This is not an equivalent scenario. The issue is not having two interrupters in line, the issue is the EVSE doing a test for ground and that test tripping the GFCI.

 

[rxlawdude]

And the only "risk" is charging will be uninterrupted. In series, it just makes an interrupt far more likely, and perhaps without a valid fault.

 

[C-Bus Y]

50 amp GFCI breaker on my 6# 110 foot run using a NEMA 14-50 and included charger for 32 amp charging. Has not tripped a single time. Using in an attached garage that should* stay dry but you never know.

 

[caffeinated]

50 amp GFCI breaker on my 6# 110 foot run using a NEMA 14-50 and included charger for 32 amp charging. Has not tripped a single time. Using in an attached garage that should* stay dry but you never know.

Same. Our SquareD Homeline GFCI breaker has worked perfectly so far. About $90 more than the non-GFCI breaker, but as long as it continues to work I'm glad we have it.

 

[Fidalgo]

We had a high-quality 60 amp GFCI installed by professionals (just for the conventional NEMA 14-50, not the Tesla charger) and have had some nuisance trips. Sometimes it happens and sometimes not, no consistency. The electrician said he didn't know why GFCI was required - our breaker is indoors, away from any water, and only used for the Model Y - but did so to satisfy code. We had him come back, but after tightening and double-checking things the trip still occasionally happens, very randomly. We had another nuisance trip on a GFCI breaker on a completely different 110 circuit. I could swap them out, but am hesitant because I don't understand what it is that is causing the trip, since it happens at different points in the charging cycle. I don't want to damage my car or house. If any electricians out there can weigh in on the pros and cons of switching to a conventional breaker, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Rocky_H]

We had a high-quality 60 amp GFCI installed by professionals (just for the conventional NEMA 14-50, not the Tesla charger) and have had some nuisance trips. Sometimes it happens and sometimes not, no consistency. The electrician said he didn't know why GFCI was required - our breaker is indoors, away from any water, and only used for the Model Y - but did so to satisfy code.

[facepalm]
Um, except that using a 60A breaker on a 50A outlet type IS A BLATANT CODE VIOLATION! Code is abundantly clear in saying that the overcurrent protection device (breaker) must be no higher than the rating of the outlet type. For a 14-50 outlet, that cannot be any higher than a 50A breaker.

 

[Fidalgo]

It took a loooong time to get a reply from Tesla on this question, but I finally got one from Wall Connector Support. Answer: "The GFCI breaker can indeed be the issue as your car / charger also come with GFCI. Having it in both the charging system and breaker will cause it to trip from time to time. Installing a non GFCI breaker will resolve this issue."

So I switched to a non-GFCI breaker. So far, no nuisance trips.

 

[mikewilltoo]

The 2017 NEC (625.54) requires GFCI breakers for any outlet used for EV charging. It requires the GFCI in order to protect users of the outlet, including anyone (kids?) who might stick something into it. It doesn't care that the EVSE you plug in also has GFCI, and is quite likely not to work when placed in series with another GFCI device. It's a simple safety matter, based on a live 240-volt high-current outlet on the wall of your garage (instead of, say, behind your dryer or your stove) -- although one with unintended consequences.

In fact, most GFCI breakers don't play well with most EVSE. Square D QO GFCI breakers have worked with most EVSE, but lately not so mluch. No solution in sight except for hard-wiring.

Signed
Electrical contractor specializing in residential EVSE.

 

[C-Bus Y]

I had an older 50 Amp square D GFCI breaker in my box that was used on a now-dead jetted tub. Repurposed for my garage and working great! Wonder if their design changed, mine has not tripped a single time.

 

[lolguy]

FWIW, my 14-50 was installed on a GFCI breaker last August, has been attached to a Juicebox since then, and charges MY daily without issue.

 

[specialgreen]

The 2017 NEC (625.54) requires GFCI breakers for any outlet used for EV charging.

I have also had zero issues using a GFCI circuit with an EVSE. And really, every outlet anywhere you can get a car near should be GFCI.

But I believe that there is zero expectation that a homeowner will buy, let alone read, let alone understand NEC (and which portions are adopted in their locality). The portion of NEC adopted by your locality defines how to do permitted work (period).

If the AHJ allows a non-GFCI 14-50 in the driveway for an RV (which is clearly unsafe, but RVs need split-phase, so everybody permits it anyways), and five years later, the homeowner buys an EV and a UL-listed EVSE at Lowes/Home Depot, then unless plugging-in an EVSE requires a permit in your locality (which it may), then if the homeowner plugs the EVSE into the previously permitted 14-50, they are not personally violating NEC. Because NEC is not written for them to read. There is no expectation that a person unplugging device A and plugging device B into the same outlet will first go buy the $130 NEC 2021 and read it.

NEC tries to build an idiot-proof environment, so that when the average homeowner is unleashed on the wiring plant, nothing burns down. I think there are some really good lessons for the average schmoe in NEC, and it would be wonderful to require every renter and homeowner to read it, but if we want that, we need something free and shorter and unambiguous (if you want an example of ambiguity, go read NEC arguments on MikeHolt).

 

[GOVA]

I've been reading several statements from electricians that the NEC code has become a cash cow for some which has little do do with anything good for customers.
There are several new appliances that I've installed lately that specifically ask NOT to use GFCI breaker.

 

[qdeathstar]

I've been reading several statements from electricians that the NEC code has become a cash cow for some which has little do do with anything good for customers.
There are several new appliances that I've installed lately that specifically ask NOT to use GFCI breaker.

im not sure about that. Gfcis and at is to prevent shock and fires.

 

[jcanoe]

You don't need a GFCI on a hard wired circuit. The reason that the 240V/50A circuit requires a GCFI circuit breaker is that there is no 14-50 GFCI receptacle. Before the NEC was updated in 2017 a 14-50 receptacle used for charging an EV did not require a GFCI. The owner's manual of my EVSE with a 14-50 power plug states that you should first turn off the power at the circuit breaker panel before plugging in or unplugging the EVSE. This eliminates any chance of getting shocked while plugging or unplugging the equipment. The GFCI also minimizes the risk of the user getting shocked while plugging or unplugging the EVSE.

I do not understand why 14-50 receptacles used for providing power to RVs do not also currently require GFCI protection. You are more likely to be standing in wet grass etc. while connecting an RV than when plugging in an EVSE in a home garage.

 

[GOVA]

im not sure about that. Gfcis and at is to prevent shock and fires.

Not sure about what?
The manufacturers clearly specified that GFCI should NOT be used for their devices.
The purpose of GFCI is well known for most, but it does not mean that one needs to cram those mindlessly to every circuit there is.

 

[qdeathstar]

Not sure about what?
The manufacturers clearly specified that GFCI should NOT be used for their devices.
The purpose of GFCI is well known for most, but it does not mean that one needs to cram those mindlessly to every circuit there is.

the manufacturer should make gfci compliant devices. A gfci detects current leakage to ground. I’d argue you do not want a device to leak current to ground.

The NEC wants garage outlets (all of them) to be gfci protected due to risk of electrical shock, particularly involving damaged extension cords at water. Seems reasonable enough to me.

Outside of the GFCI requirement for receptacles, what other NEC requirement do you feel is a money grab?

 

[GOVA]

the manufacturer should make gfci compliant devices. A gfci detects current leakage to ground. I’d argue you do not want a device to leak current to ground.

The NEC wants garage outlets (all of them) to be gfci protected due to risk of electrical shock, particularly involving damaged extension cords at water. Seems reasonable enough to me.

Outside of the GFCI requirement for receptacles, what other NEC requirement do you feel is a money grab?

Outlets - Yes.

Breakers - Not always.

I replied very clearly

I've been reading several statements from electricians that the NEC code has become a cash cow for some which has little do do with anything good for customers.
There are several new appliances that I've installed lately that specifically ask NOT to use GFCI breaker.

Money grab:
CH 20 Amp 2-Pole Self Test Ground Fault Circuit Breaker by Eaton
$176.86

Eaton CH 20 Amp 2-Pole Self Test Ground Fault Circuit Breaker CH220GFTCS - The Home Depot

Eaton's CH ground fault current interrupters (GFCIs) are 3/4 in. wide and provide superior safety over a standard electrical outlet in areas where electricity may come into contact with water. GFCIs are

www.homedepot.com

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-C...nd-Fault-Circuit-Breaker-CH250GFTCS/300346616