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Glass is more than half full... PV+ESS is the bomb.

holeydonut

Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
1,538
899
East Bay NorCal
Teslas own information on their website (which I grabbed a screenshot of above) says that the requirement is 687kWh per powerwall. The batteries supposedly have to be cycled 52 times a year each, not each battery 104 times a year. Any chance you got the number "104 times a year" from when you were looking at 2 powerwalls and into applying for the SGIP yourself?

I obviously dont know what you were told or saw, but requirement should be 52 times a year per battery (13.2 X 52 = 686.4, or pretty much exactly the "687" on teslas website).

I am fairly confident your requirement is 687 X 3, or 2059, and you are already 1876kWh used so have almost met the requirement and will by the end of june for sure.

The large-scale (general market) SGIP is different. Edit: *I'd have to bet that they actually distinguish between large-scale residential and large-scale non-residential. And so far I don't know if they are that precise on this large-scale program since most of the people claiming it are commercial* It used to be 130 cycles, but they reduced it to 104. TBH, I don't think I'd hit the 130 cycles unless I did some grid exporting. There's also a chance I don't get my SGIP money unless I do the 104 cycling (eg, they pay the incentive ratably over 5 years instead of up front.

 
  • Informative
Reactions: jjrandorin

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
2,486
424
auburn, ca
The large-scale (general market) SGIP is different. Edit: *I'd have to bet that they actually distinguish between large-scale residential and large-scale non-residential. And so far I don't know if they are that precise on this large-scale program since most of the people claiming it are commercial* It used to be 130 cycles, but they reduced it to 104. TBH, I don't think I'd hit the 130 cycles unless I did some grid exporting. There's also a chance I don't get my SGIP money unless I do the 104 cycling (eg, they pay the incentive ratably over 5 years instead of up front.

But that says commerical?
 

BGbreeder

Member
Jun 19, 2020
238
132
Bay Area
The large-scale (general market) SGIP is different. Edit: *I'd have to bet that they actually distinguish between large-scale residential and large-scale non-residential. And so far I don't know if they are that precise on this large-scale program since most of the people claiming it are commercial* It used to be 130 cycles, but they reduced it to 104. TBH, I don't think I'd hit the 130 cycles unless I did some grid exporting. There's also a chance I don't get my SGIP money unless I do the 104 cycling (eg, they pay the incentive ratably over 5 years instead of up front.

I am sure that you are right, but the only place that I found the 104 cycle reference was for commercial (non-residential) systems. Is that where yours ended up? If so, why?

5.2.5 Operational Requirements
New non-residential systems are required to discharge a minimum of 104 full discharges per year. Residential systems are required to discharge a minimum of 52 full discharges per year. A “full discharge” is the equivalent of discharging the SGIP-incentivized energy capacity, whether it is during a single or multiple discharges.60

All the best,

BG
 

holeydonut

Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
1,538
899
East Bay NorCal
This was supposed to be a happy thread guys :p.

I had to scramble and find some magic bullet solution to get a 3rd battery under the Large-Scale SGIP program since PG&E barred me from my 2 battery partial home backup solution (citing the 120 percent rule). Sunrun didn't know what to do and were about to scrap my order.

@Vines indicated his employer basically only sells 3x or larger systems to homeowners because effectively the 3rd battery is "free" as long as the large-scale program has funding. Why didn't I just go with @Vines? It's because I'm too far away.

Anywayssssssssss.... Sunrun didn't know about the large-scale program, so I actually got my own SGIP developer key and I was going to submit my own SGIP application to get that 3rd battery. It wasn't until the very end that someone at Sunrun realized it was 100% stupid for a homeowner to have to do so much legwork on their own, and Sunrun actually submitted a large-scale SGIP rebate application on my behalf.

Here are the SGIP categories from their program metrics: (I selected Large Scale, you just can't tell by the screenshot).

1620843479283.png

  1. Large-Scale technically includes Resi and Non-Resi. I'm applying to this tier. But the forms are basically the same. Someone at PG&E's SGIP department has to have the wherewithal to somehow determine my system is Resi. But as we've seen, PG&E thinks I'm trying to blow up their grid, so they've been treating me as if I were some huge mega-generating operator (out of a single family home in the East Bay Suburbs). So, I don't trust PG&E to put me in a residential category.

  2. Small Resi storage is done and dusted for new applicants. It's been waitlisting since late 2019. But I think @MJ_CA_2019 is accessing this bucket because he got his application in a longggg time ago. It's just taken him years to get his SGIP in order.

  3. Resi Equity is basically for low income only homes to get ESS. Probably nobody on TMC qualifies for this

  4. Non-Residential Equity got a huge mega-expansion of funds. Tesla actually sells a lot of PWs into this tier since they do municipal and other investments in low-income buildings. Lots of $ for Tesla. No $ for us :(

  5. Equity Resiliency is apparently done and dusted for PG&E. I think @h2ofun is hitting this category. I have no clue how he got 5x batteries cleared on this... but he'd be like the only happy-news case out of this category that I can think of haha. The SGIP admins have been talking about trying to get more funds over to that category since there is so much demand in that bucket. But, SGIP also said many people had submitted bad-faith SGIP claims (basically saying the home was only served by well-water, when in fact the home had multiple water sources). SGIP also didn't like paying for battery backups on people's leisure/rental-income properties. So don't know what hoops this group have now.
 

BGbreeder

Member
Jun 19, 2020
238
132
Bay Area
All the ins and outs of this make me feel pretty lost. Thanks for the additional information.

If it makes you feel better, @Vines company wouldn't quote me either, though he personally was super helpful.

All the best,

BG
 

MJ_CA_2019

Member
Aug 19, 2020
141
34
Central CA
This was supposed to be a happy thread guys :p.

I had to scramble and find some magic bullet solution to get a 3rd battery under the Large-Scale SGIP program since PG&E barred me from my 2 battery partial home backup solution (citing the 120 percent rule). Sunrun didn't know what to do and were about to scrap my order.

@Vines indicated his employer basically only sells 3x or larger systems to homeowners because effectively the 3rd battery is "free" as long as the large-scale program has funding. Why didn't I just go with @Vines? It's because I'm too far away.

Anywayssssssssss.... Sunrun didn't know about the large-scale program, so I actually got my own SGIP developer key and I was going to submit my own SGIP application to get that 3rd battery. It wasn't until the very end that someone at Sunrun realized it was 100% stupid for a homeowner to have to do so much legwork on their own, and Sunrun actually submitted a large-scale SGIP rebate application on my behalf.

Here are the SGIP categories from their program metrics: (I selected Large Scale, you just can't tell by the screenshot).

View attachment 661625
  1. Large-Scale technically includes Resi and Non-Resi. I'm applying to this tier. But the forms are basically the same. Someone at PG&E's SGIP department has to have the wherewithal to somehow determine my system is Resi. But as we've seen, PG&E thinks I'm trying to blow up their grid, so they've been treating me as if I were some huge mega-generating operator (out of a single family home in the East Bay Suburbs). So, I don't trust PG&E to put me in a residential category.

  2. Small Resi storage is done and dusted for new applicants. It's been waitlisting since late 2019. But I think @MJ_CA_2019 is accessing this bucket because he got his application in a longggg time ago. It's just taken him years to get his SGIP in order.

  3. Resi Equity is basically for low income only homes to get ESS. Probably nobody on TMC qualifies for this

  4. Non-Residential Equity got a huge mega-expansion of funds. Tesla actually sells a lot of PWs into this tier since they do municipal and other investments in low-income buildings. Lots of $ for Tesla. No $ for us :(

  5. Equity Resiliency is apparently done and dusted for PG&E. I think @h2ofun is hitting this category. I have no clue how he got 5x batteries cleared on this... but he'd be like the only happy-news case out of this category that I can think of haha. The SGIP admins have been talking about trying to get more funds over to that category since there is so much demand in that bucket. But, SGIP also said many people had submitted bad-faith SGIP claims (basically saying the home was only served by well-water, when in fact the home had multiple water sources). SGIP also didn't like paying for battery backups on people's leisure/rental-income properties. So don't know what hoops this group have now.

We are Large Scale Step 2 but i've never seen anything relating to "Commercial".
 

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