GM continues to try to stifle competition

[pedriscoll]

Well, it looks like we in Indiana have won a reprieve. When I started this thread I had no idea of how widespread the news of this issue would become. Thanks to Bonnie and Lanny for taking it over. After starting it and writing my state senator, my day job as a physician got it the way. I had not followed it for a couple of days and when I opened it today and saw that it had grown to 22 pages I was amazed. The Indianpolis Star picked up the story as did local talk radio. Now we in Indiana must be vigilant and follow what happens in the study committee this summer. I am sure GM is not going to give up.

 

[kelly]

On the subject of whether GM was the creator of this bill, I think we have an answer now:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ral-motors-over-right-to-sell-cars-in-indiana

So they didn't write the exact language, but pretty much they told Mahan the general way to write the bill (and GM likely was the originator, as dealer groups did not come out and take credit for suggesting the idea). That is probably why GM didn't outright deny Tesla's claim, but rather issued a statement in support of the bill.

It might be an interesting exercise for someone in Indiana to submit a public records request to Mahan's office, seeking all of the emails between him and anyone from GM for the last 12 months. I don't know anything about the public records laws in Indiana, though. The legislature may have cleverly exempted themselves from the public records laws.

 

[Ktowntslafan]

Well, it looks like we in Indiana have won a reprieve. When I started this thread I had no idea of how widespread the news of this issue would become. Thanks to Bonnie and Lanny for taking it over. After starting it and writing my state senator, my day job as a physician got it the way. I had not followed it for a couple of days and when I opened it today and saw that it had grown to 22 pages I was amazed. The Indianpolis Star picked up the story as did local talk radio. Now we in Indiana must be vigilant and follow what happens in the study committee this summer. I am sure GM is not going to give up.

We need more of this!! On to the next one....Bonnie, your call. Here's where we're at in Ontario (post #51 is good starting point):

Ontario EV incentives upped to $14K... and decreased to $3k for Tesla - Page 6

Note: no confirmed GM lobbying-much speculation however.

Note: Ontario has a wonderfully progressive EV policy. We are very fortunate. The issue is the recent changes that hurt Tesla.

 

[dsm363]

They are diverting with the argument that "The Chinese and Indians are gonna come dump metal on us...driving them all out of business and if we force the Chinese to use the dealership model they can't do that, cause we protect consumers from teh commies." and yes, if you watch, the big dealer dude throws down the communist card as justification, because somehow it's relevant. They also threw down the little league card, implying that dealers are needed to support little league teams. Its so stupid it hurts. Next they will be saying that the dealership model somehow protects us from ISIS.

Representative Mahan said that in the article too. Only way to change this is to get people like that voted out of office. Maybe fund a primary or general election challenger?

 

[dsm363]

Impose a $1 fee on all direct sales cars that goes to local little leagues. Problem solved.

 

[TexasEV]

They also threw down the little league card, implying that dealers are needed to support little league teams. Its so stupid it hurts. Next they will be saying that the dealership model somehow protects us from ISIS.

Yes, it's all about the children. I love Elon's reply to that when he testified in Texas in 2013, something to the effect of "if supporting Little League is a requirement to sell cars in Texas, tell me how much it costs and where to send the check".

 

[bonnie]

We need more of this!! On to the next one....Bonnie, your call. Here's where we're at in Ontario (post #51 is good starting point):

Ontario EV incentives upped to $14K... and decreased to $3k for Tesla - Page 6

Note: no confirmed GM lobbying-much speculation however.

Note: Ontario has a wonderfully progressive EV policy. We are very fortunate. The issue is the recent changes that hurt Tesla.

Ontario: Paul Carter is spear-heading. Right now, letters are great. No need for a public campaign (yet). They're listening, from what I understand. The issue is keeping incentives from just being tied to the cost of the vehicle, but rather have an income-based test like we now have in California. It's much more fair. Otherwise, billionaires can buy a dozen Leafs and get full rebate, but someone stretching to buy a Tesla cannot.

Letters. Write letters. Tesla supplied the contact info to Ontario owners. If you need it, I'll post.

 

[ggies07]

Yes, it's all about the children. I love Elon's reply to that when he testified in Texas in 2013, something to the effect of "if supporting Little League is a requirement to sell cars in Texas, tell me how much it costs and where to send the check".

Not only that, but these dealers are selling cars that pollute the air with CO2, hurting those future generations lives. Quite an oxymoron.......

 

[dsm363]

Not only that, but these dealers are selling cars that pollute the air with CO2, hurting those future generations lives. Quite an oxymoron.......

Future generations don't write for today's campaign checks so don't think they really care. Sad but that's how things seem to work.

 

[Ktowntslafan]

Ontario: Paul Carter is spear-heading. Right now, letters are great. No need for a public campaign (yet). They're listening, from what I understand. The issue is keeping incentives from just being tied to the cost of the vehicle, but rather have an income-based test like we now have in California. It's much more fair. Otherwise, billionaires can buy a dozen Leafs and get full rebate, but someone stretching to buy a Tesla cannot.

Letters. Write letters. Tesla supplied the contact info to Ontario owners. If you need it, I'll post.

Must be on the lookout for this new threat:

The Kochs Are Plotting A Multimillion-Dollar Assault On Electric Vehicles

Interesting comment in this terrible anti-Tesla newspaper article. Daphne Bramham: We shouldn't be subsidizing luxury cars, even if they're electric

 

[Nomad]

Yes, it's all about the children. I love Elon's reply to that when he testified in Texas in 2013, something to the effect of "if supporting Little League is a requirement to sell cars in Texas, tell me how much it costs and where to send the check".

Is there a video or transcript of this? If not, when did this hearing take place? It appears to be a common statement.

Slate asked Tesla’s vice president of corporate and business development, Diarmuid O’Connell, about the whole youth-sports-support thing, and the site paraphrased him as saying “Tesla would be happy to support the little leagues and the YMCA if that’s what North Carolina requires in order to do business there.”

I think Tesla should indeed be voluntarily supporting local little leagues and whatnot. I imagine Elon thinks that he's already doing the localities a great service by reducing emissions (he's not wrong). Still, it would be great to be able to shut down that soundbite. It has been regurgitated in North Carolina, Texas, and now Indiana. It's an emotional argument—it's no surprise that it is an effective one. Of course, it's absurd to think whether or not a company supports little leagues should at all be a factor in whether or not it can legally do business in a state.

 

[TaoJones]

It might be an interesting exercise for someone in Indiana to submit a public records request to Mahan's office, seeking all of the emails between him and anyone from GM for the last 12 months. I don't know anything about the public records laws in Indiana, though. The legislature may have cleverly exempted themselves from the public records laws.

This may be the one time in my life that I wished I was in Indiana (resident). Hopefully someone local will pick up this ball. The more illumination, the better.

That said, we will need to be vigilant as to the disposition of the study/committee tactic. While visibility may be required to have another vote, you can bet those operating in the shadows would prefer to wait until public scrutiny dies down. Can't let them succeed. Not in Indiana, not in any state. Once codified, bad law is so much harder to undo than it is to get it right in the first place.

 

[bonnie]

That said, we will need to be vigilant as to the disposition of the study/committee tactic. While visibility may be required to have another vote, you can bet those operating in the shadows would prefer to wait until public scrutiny dies down. Can't let them succeed. Not in Indiana, not in any state. Once codified, bad law is so much harder to undo than it is to get it right in the first place.

Oh don't worry . Nothing is dying down. Not in Indiana or anywhere else.

I already was irritated by the whole dealership battle. And then Mary Barra just set me off at the Bolt launch with her snarky comments about how competitors' cars couldn't always be serviced in the state. Right, Mary. Because of you. Just irritated me to no end. So game on.

I told Diarmuid a few years ago that I don't start fights, but if someone brings one to the table, I don't walk away. And here we are. I think that at this point, both GM and NADA are aware of that.

 

[Sudre]

Watching the video of the days events in Indiana really PO'd me. This whole line of garbage about how the state is protecting blah blah blah. Buck also mentioned that somehow China will sweep in and... blah blah blah. I have a little secret for these foolish lawmakers in Indiana.

"GM Posts China Sales Record in November" GM Posts China Sales Record in November - WSJ

I don't think GM has any problems competing with other car makers when a franchise dealership model is NOT used. Most countries do not have these ridiculous laws and some how GM appears to be doing just fine. If I listen to Mr Buck you would think it'd be the end of the world if GM had any competition in the USA. How in the heck do they manage to stay in business in Canada?

I think the error in the argument against this bill has been that it's all about Tesla.
The real question should have been how can other states and other countries do what Indiana is too inept to do. The real reason is the state legislators in Indiana are too damn lazy to rewrite their laws taking out the word "franchise" and "independent" and just write the laws to cover all car sales under any model.

They also need to stop trying to block China. It is not the right of the states (as far as I understand) to make tariffs and such. That is the Federal Governments job. If they are worried about China coming in and dumping cheap cars on the streets then they need to encourage our Federal Government to put tariffs on Chinese cars. States don't technical have the right to "level the playing field" with foreign countries but Mr Buck implied that several times.

Then it was also brought up that some how a citizen of Indiana can drive their car around on the streets without paying the state taxes (having a license plate). I came to that conclusion after it was mentioned that a resident can somehow skip out on paying taxes for cars ordered on the internet. How and the heck does that happen? If I can skip out on paying my sales tax on my car simply by ordering it online in Indiana and still get my plates..... well I'm moving to Indiana! Oh and they must have some pretty STUPID lawmakers if they haven't figured out how to fix that one.

alright.. I have vented my annoyance.. sorry folks. I feel better.

 

[Curt Renz]

They also threw down the little league card, implying that dealers are needed to support little league teams.

It's not as though the dealerships are quietly and selflessly donating money to support Little League baseball. They are having their company names sewn onto uniforms as advertisements to parents, and in the hopes that in a few years the players also become customers.

 

[Uncle Paul]

All of this will become a non issue when the larger and most polluted cities ban internal combustion engines from being run in their city cores.

In Europe, major manufacturers are building hybrid vehicles with small batteries with just enough juice to drive into the clean zones. They drive on pollution ICE motors until they get to the edge of the cities and then switch to batteries to legally enter the cities. If you do not have a battery for this use, you must park your car on the outskirts and take a propane fueled bus into the business and tourist districts.

People living inside the cities got fed up with all the pollution and noise that ICE vehicles impose on them.

Electric (or Hydrogen) is the solution to the pollution for cities.

It has begun in the US as well. Cities are allowing battery powered vehicles to use their car pool lanes to cleanly and quickly enter the cities, while the polluting ICE vehicles must crawl slowly in the congestion of the their own making.

The future is electric!

 

[TexasEV]

It's not as though the dealerships are quietly and selflessly donating money to support Little League baseball. They are having their company names sewn onto uniforms as advertisements to parents, and in the hopes that in a few years the players also become customers.

Also they can deduct the donation as a charitable contribution, and they get to look like the good guy. If consumers could keep more of what they make instead of paying it to the auto dealer cartel as a stealth tax, they would have more money themselves to donate and get the tax deduction.

 

[brkaus]

It's not as though the dealerships are quietly and selflessly donating money to support Little League baseball. They are having their company names sewn onto uniforms as advertisements to parents, and in the hopes that in a few years the players also become customers.

Yes, from a business perspective it is simply an advertising expense. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[GoTslaGo]

Uncle Paul-- Thanks for reminding me! I gotta send a friend my link. He's moving to San Fran soon!

 

[RobStark]

Here is another issue on the docket at the State Capitol in Indiana.

It seems like an SNL parody.

"Late last year, the State Board of Cosmetology and Barber Examiners ruled that only barbers can shave and trim beards and mustaches. That led cosmetologists to look for a legislative answer.

The issue becomes complicated when considering the instrument used to shave. Barbers have special training in using a straight razor and want to protect that part of their business. But the broad board ruling has stopped cosmetologists from even using electric clippers to trim someone’s beard."

http://www.journalgazette.net/news/local/indiana/Cash-for-Regional-Cities-stays-alive-11694939