GM continues to try to stifle competition

[ecarfan]

Curt, I think you are giving Barra too much credit.
And I don't understand what you mean by "Tesla was waiting for the departure of...Scalia". Scalia's "departure" was unexpected: he could have been on the court for another 20 years or more.

 

[Zaxxon]

Nor was he the one necessarily 'expected' to depart next.

 

[bonnie]

I’ve always suspected that Tesla was waiting for the departure of Justice Scalia before going to federal court regarding the states that legislate contrary to the US Constitution’s interstate commerce clause. Scalia preferred a soft interpretation of the clause as a bow to a state’s right to legislate commerce as it sees fit. The Federal Trade Commission sees the clause in a more absolute sense.

General Motors would probably be pleased if Tesla wins in federal court. It would be to the benefit of all manufacturers. Barra may be trying to force Tesla to do just that.

GM will still have to abide by its contractual agreements with its franchisees, even if state law no longer requires the relationship. GM is not interested in getting the laws removed -- GM wants Tesla to have to operate under the same archaic business model that they operate under.

 

[Curt Renz]

Curt, I think you are giving Barra too much credit.
And I don't understand what you mean by "Tesla was waiting for the departure of...Scalia". Scalia's "departure" was unexpected: he could have been on the court for another 20 years or more.

Scalia would have turned 80 next month, and it would not have been surprising if he retired or died before long. He may have been waiting to learn who would be the next president before resigning. I've had this suspicion for several years regarding Tesla avoiding federal court on this issue while Scalia was seated.

Indeed, regarding Barra I may have been too generous. :wink:

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GM will still have to abide by its contractual agreements with its franchisees, even if state law no longer requires the relationship. GM is not interested in getting the laws removed -- GM wants Tesla to have to operate under the same archaic business model that they operate under.

That may be essentially true, Bonnie. But a Tesla victory in federal court may make GM feel more motivated to buy out its dealers. It did so with my 75-year-old Chevy dealer a few years ago. That dealership was conveniently a few blocks away, and I could walk home while my car was being serviced. Now its a twenty-minute drive. My dealer's territory was divided between a couple of surrounding dealerships, and its property was sold by GM to a supermarket chain. If not obligated to have a franchise model, GM may have started operating the Chevy dealership that had been near me. Meanwhile, the other manufacturers don't seem to be on the states' rights bandwagon with GM.

 

[chickensevil]

It's suspiciously interesting to me to see the dates moved from end of 2019 (roughly) to the end of 2017, which is conveniently the release timeframe for the Model 3 and well after the Bolt will have been on sale for around a year. This is GM worried about the Model 3 destroying their sales plain and simple.

Ford wouldn't care, they make their money on the truck which isn't even officially on the roadmap yet. Fiat thinks EVs are a waste of time. BMW says bring it on and appears to be going full speed ahead into EVs. MB... Well, I don't know where they stand. Asian manufacturers see Hydrogen as the future so what do they care except Renault/Nissan who also looks ready to position in line with Tesla. GM is the only one who seems to have a real stale in keeping things just the way they are because they have seen the impact Tesla has drawn and they are clearly making a product to compete in that space. They are likely of the mistaken thought that the market sizeis limited so they want to keep hold of their EV share without realizing that really it is their ICE they should be protecting... Or maybe they do realize this which is why they made such a terrible car (16k in a 37k price tag) because they had to on some level to be federal fuel efficiency standards but they don't want to lose their primary car sales.

Consider that really VW, GM and Toyota are the key players right now that have real vested interest in holding their market share. They stand to lose the most in any shift of the markets. Toyota is coming out slamming EVs as not the future... GM is straight attacking Tesla, and well, VW is digging themselves out of their own grave at the moment to pay attention to Tesla. That's how I see it at least.

 

[McMuggets]

Hi all. Just wanted to chime in as a Canadian here. After seeing all this news come to the forefront, it is absolutely baffling that I can buy an American made Tesla easier than many Americans can. Tesla (and any other car maker) can sell whatever they want here, however they want. They've set up mall locations and have CPO's here, and you can walk in and drive it off the lot. Always thought Canada would have been the country with such government restrictive laws vs. the USA. What ever happened to the "Land of the Free?". My hopes are with you in fighting these crony laws that stifle competition and free-market capitalism that America should be the leader in.

It shouldn't even be a "Tesla vs. GM" thing, it should be about liberty to make your own decisions and buy what you want to buy without people telling you how or what you are allowed to buy. You should really send this issue out to not only your EV friends but also to every libertarian/tea party sympathizer even if you do not subscribe to their tribe. They should be absolutely appalled at this type of stuff happening in Indiana, Utah, etc. Just let them know that Canada is more free in this respect... that's gotta hurt.

 

[Curt Renz]

Dealerships trumpet the benefits of intra-brand competition among each other. Is that not regarding dealer markups rather than the wholesale price charged to dealers? In effect, Tesla is selling something resembling wholesale to consumers. Tesla and the other manufacturers are selling to their actual buyers for what the market will bear. If Tesla charges too much to inspire demand, they would have to either charge less or go out of business. They don't have a monopoly in automobiles. Although perhaps Tesla is not charging enough, since they have a long backlog of orders. In any event, in supposedly free America it should be the filter of the marketplace and its customers that select winning products and business models, not legislators.

 

[Ktowntslafan]

Well put, Peter.

Agreed!

 

[Breezy]

I think we're talking past each other here.

My tweet with reply is meant ultimately for Indiana committee members to see. THIS is what GM says. I want them to know what isn't being said. Otherwise GM's lies sit there and are accepted as truth.

Just trying to help. Since it was a tweet, I assumed the intent was for it to be retweeted and seen by the largest number of people possible in order to mobilize opposition. Unfortunately since I disagree with points #1 and #4 I won't be propogating it.

 

[bonnie]

Just trying to help. Since it was a tweet, I assumed the intent was for it to be retweeted and seen by the largest number of people possible in order to mobilize opposition. Unfortunately since I disagree with points #1 and #4 I won't be propogating it.

I think I understand your point. You'd like me to focus on GM's behavior and not their products. Which is fair. Kind of like not bringing someone's kids into the disagreement.

The problem is that GM is using their products to create a story that is not quite accurate (like in MD). The point of my response is to say 'that's not true, GM, tell the truth.'

Regarding retweeting or not - hey, get your own tweet out there. Everyone amplifying the situation helps. Go for it!

 

[Ktowntslafan]

Up next (I just want to get through Indiana first), with short summaries below. If any of these get you personally riled up, please start a thread similar to this one. I'll help. Otherwise I'll get on it later this week.:

Ontario – similar to MA, Ontario is instituting an MSRP cap on cars over $75,000 CDN. Cars at that level are only allowed a $3,000 rebate versus a possible $14,000 otherwise. Cars over $150,000 CDN receive zero rebate. Again, an income means test is the smarter way to go if this is really about not subsidizing high income buyers. The Minister of Economic Development and the Minister of Environment are leaning towards us. The Minister of Transportation is pushing back. Owners can also pressure Premiere’s office as well.

Here's the situation in Ontario-I think it's a good idea to compare notes:

Ontario EV incentives upped to $14K... and decreased to $3k for Tesla - Page 22

 

[Zarwin]

For anyone interested, here is the full Indiana General Assembly Commerce & Technology Committee discussion of HB1254 on Feb 18th 2016. It's worth a watch, especially the first 18 minutes, to get an idea of the mindset. At one point a representative is actually suggesting that since Teslas are so expensive, it's not a big deal to raise the price a bit, to enable the dealership to profit.

Indiana General Assembly HB1254 Feb 18 CTC (Anti-Tesla bill) - YouTube

For those that don't want to watch the whole thing, here are some direct links:

First 18 minutes are introduction by Sen. Buck (committe chair) and presentation and discussion of the bill by Rep. Mahan and Sen. Kenley

Tesla VP of Regulatory Affairs James Chen 18:35
Indiana General Assembly HB1254 Feb 18 CTC (Anti-Tesla bill) - YouTube

Tesla Owner #1 57:35
Indiana General Assembly HB1254 Feb 18 CTC (Anti-Tesla bill) - YouTube

Tesla Owner #2 1:03:13
Indiana General Assembly HB1254 Feb 18 CTC (Anti-Tesla bill) - YouTube

Tesla Owner #3 1:09:30
Indiana General Assembly HB1254 Feb 18 CTC (Anti-Tesla bill) - YouTube

Tesla Service Manager 1:13:00
Indiana General Assembly HB1254 Feb 18 CTC (Anti-Tesla bill) - YouTube

Tesla Owner #4 1:20:10
Indiana General Assembly HB1254 Feb 18 CTC (Anti-Tesla bill) - YouTube

Tesla Owner #5 1:23:00
Indiana General Assembly HB1254 Feb 18 CTC (Anti-Tesla bill) - YouTube

 

[omarsultan]

Watching that video was not good for my blood pressure--I cannot believe these schmucks are trying to dictate to any business what their business model should be. Sure, I feed off the public teet, but let me tell you how to run your business. :cursing:

 

[Zaxxon]

I agree. James Chen has more patience than I. The entire discussion proceeds from a false premise--that Tesla is asking for an exemption--and then the Senators just try to assume that 1) that's correct, and 2) let's close that 'exemption' and brainstorm ways for Tesla to deal with that.

Ugh.

 

[Nomad]

If anyone has contacted their State Representatives or State Senators, please let me know. I'm building a spreadsheet to keep track of their positions. If you haven't contacted your representative, please do so today: Find your Legislator - Indiana General Assembly, 2016 Session



HB1254 Status (The Anti-Tesla Bill in Indiana) - Google Sheets

 

[stopcrazypp]

I just wanted to comment to show support for those in Indiana putting the effort in fighting this bill. Even for those of us in other states, it is worthwhile to follow the proceedings, since a similar bill can be pushed in any state. Previously the fight was about dealer groups keeping existing laws that prevent Tesla from opening stores, but this bill is an example of a new law that removes existing Tesla stores.

 

[bonnie]

If anyone has contacted their State Representatives or State Senators, please let me know. I'm building a spreadsheet to keep track of their positions. If you haven't contacted your representative, please do so today: Find your Legislator - Indiana General Assembly, 2016 Session



HB1254 Status (The Anti-Tesla Bill in Indiana) - Google Sheets

Great work!

 

[Zaxxon]

Agreed!

 

[efusco]

I was screaming at my monitor watching that! It's clear that half the people there don't even understand the dealer model...the one guy even admitted he didn't understand it. What's so freaking hard to grasp here?

 

[JadeJaguar]

USA Today posted an article on the bill 2 hours ago:
GM-backed bill could block Tesla in Indiana

It quotes a GM spokesman as saying existing law is unfair to GM, Ford etc. because it prohibits companies with franchise dealers from selling direct.
Chairman of the committee, Sen. Buck, stated in Feb 18 meeting that the bill (of which he's a cosponsor) "is not about Tesla". But Tesla is the only car manufacturer selling direct in Indiana.