Gonna bail - anyone else?

[dirkhh]

And this is why I try to be very careful when discussing potential early quality issues on this forum. There are many contributing members who have already taken delivery and are dealing with their SCs. It doesn't help to have a chorus of people talking about waiting or delaying deliveries. You can make that personal decision based on the information, but announcing it outright seems a little unfair to people like Mark Z. Imagine a friend purchased a home in a subdivision you were considering, and you heard of some issues in those homes. Indeed, your friend was dealing with the builder on them. I doubt you'd want to say "yep, that's why I'm waiting."

I think it's a balance. There are many things that I wouldn't post publicly (and some of them I have shared with you in private, ohmman). I don't want people who came to a different conclusion than I did to feel bad about their decision. And I certainly don't want to make people like Mark Z or Bonnie feel bad, who so generously share with us.

But on the flip side, I think TMC should roughly represent what people think and do - if all we post here is "pro-Tesla", then TMC no longer helps people make informed decisions (and basically has lost its value to me).

So no, you won't see me post "ha, suckers, enjoy the looong wait for your stupid **** cars!" - because that's not right, and it's not how I feel. I guess I have documented enough of the journey to this decision to show how conflicted I am. I loved the car when I first sat in it (thanks, Kittylitter). I think the FWD are an engineering marvel and would have loved to have them and to show them off. I think this car will make a lot of people happy. But for us, right now, given the other factors I've mentioned before, switching to a Model S was the right decision. And I would claim that it's also important to document that in order to give a somewhat realistic picture here on TMC.

 

[Zybane]

And this is why I try to be very careful when discussing potential early quality issues on this forum. There are many contributing members who have already taken delivery and are dealing with their SCs. It doesn't help to have a chorus of people talking about waiting or delaying deliveries. You can make that personal decision based on the information, but announcing it outright seems a little unfair to people like Mark Z. Imagine a friend purchased a home in a subdivision you were considering, and you heard of some issues in those homes. Indeed, your friend was dealing with the builder on them. I doubt you'd want to say "yep, that's why I'm waiting."

To me that is a pretty silly stance. Putting blinders on never helps a situation. Knowledge is power. I'd expect people to be adults and know the cold, hard facts of a situation.

 

[ohmman]

To me that is a pretty silly stance. Putting blinders on never helps a situation. Knowledge is power. I'd expect people to be adults and know the cold, hard facts of a situation.

I think you're misconstruing what I said. I am not suggesting that people with issues don't post them. That's the knowledge/"cold, hard facts" part of the equation. I'm just suggesting a bit of consideration. If someone has seen/been delivered a MX and they have commentary on facts, by all means they should share it.

 

[Mark Z]

I just want everyone to make the best decision based on their needs, finances and required reliability. We know that the Tesla EV performance is best, so that must be weighed with the decision.

If you have the time to deal with any reliability issues and you love the Model X design then go for it.

I would have one major question for those waiting for a production Model X. Are they including the dark tinted windows in the back? If I was walking into a Tesla store and taking test drives in Model X, I would want to sit inside examples with and without the tint. Another choice is the dark or light headliner. Seeing the vehicles will help those who are on the fence on what to purchase. I would say that seeing the vehicles in person is a major reason to wait if there is uncertainty in the decision making process.

It seems odd, but the lack of window tint may be the major reason I enjoy driving Model S so much. Having the light headliner in S and the dark headliner in X could be another. But with less than 300 miles on the odometer, I need more time to enjoy Model X.

UPDATE: Today I did enjoy more time in Model X and this is a good place to mention it. On a bright day, the darker tint isn't so dark. I saw more out of the rear view mirror than some of the photos show. I do enjoy the higher profile and visibility is good on the sides and of course, the front windshield. Comfort is great and I am still learning new things each day.

I stopped by the local Tesla Store to get a key fob protector. No luck on that front, but several Tesla Product Specialists were on hand to serve the customers. Enough staff were on hand, that they were able to take turns and examine my Model X. For some, it was the first time they saw the X in person. They were pleased to see the lighted mirror in the visor because several Model S sales were lost due to that missing feature. They enjoyed climbing in and out of the back seat and how much easier it is than Model S. (I have found ways to enter the back with no scuffing, just grip onto the 2nd row seat headrest as a handhold for stability.) We enjoyed talking about the quality improvements and how Tesla would make things right.

The Tesla Product Specialists were trained in something I didn't know about and can't find in the manual. The FWD can be opened or closed manually if necessary. The release is well hidden but it does work. I tried it on my broken door at home. Sure enough, you can push the door further up than normal travel. Takes a bit of effort, and there is no warning if you get it near an object. Manual closing was interesting. I gently closed the door, but it seemed ajar. I pushed the top down, and the bottom pulled in. Seems the bottom latch remains operational, even though the movement circuits in my broken door were not operational. It is comforting to know that with some special effort, the doors could be opened if there was no other way out. While no tools are required, I would not recommend trying it, and that is why I won't mention the hidden release location here (don't look for it, it's even hidden after you remove a special panel from the inside). Call Tesla Motors if you need to know. There are other parts in the area that could be damaged, especially when the panel is removed or replaced, and I don't want to be responsible for that.

One more thing was checked out at home, and that is the 2nd air mover for the rear seats. A second fan system is controllable at the touchscreen and is very powerful with vents for each rear seat passenger. While the 2nd row center seat gets the air from the front console, the other 4 locations can get blasted. This is great news for summer heat and multiple passengers. Everyone should be happy. The air intake is at the rear hatch on the left. Have fun finding that and don't let kids toss objects into the hole!

Another treat was finding the towing eye at the back of the Mobile Connector bag. The Owner's Manual says in is in the front trunk, but now you know where to look. Check the Model X Owner's Manual for all the details on using the towing eye if you are stuck.

 

[aesculus]

I believe this is one of the most powerful arguments in this thread, and it was phrased best by AlMc a while back. Paraphrasing: "The Model S was a no-compromise sedan, but the Model X requires some compromise." There is nothing to "get over" with the MS - for a sedan especially, the utility is amazing. With the MX, some people (but not all!) need to adopt some compromise.

From a utility standpoint the MS does not compromise, but the MX does. That is frustrating because it should be the other way around.

However from an ingress/egress and comfort position, the MX is way above the MS. I really wanted the MX to be the best of both worlds but it isn't. The MS was just not going to work for me so I had to settle for the MX with compromises.

I suspect in a few years the MX or maybe the M3Y? might be the better car. In the mean time I will try to get the MX to work out. Its not like I am going to really suffer. :smile:

 

[mf66]

My order confirms tomorrow. I have been debating but think i'll stay in. The car is flashy for my inner city Chicago neighborhood. The falcon wing doors are weird, overly complex and likely a maintenance nightmare. Emotional approach and my love of technology is beating out the rational thoughts. Now the waiting begins..

 

[Jeva]

As the OP, for the record (not that anyone really cares as some have pointed out), I did get my deposit back and will be picking up a different brand vehicle when my current lease expires in March. I'll definitely consider a Tesla in the future (my wife is due for a new car soon). Right now with gas prices being what they are (transient, I know) and the economy looking to flounder all year until at least election time, I don't feel like sinking $100K+ is the right thing to be doing for us. If the market continues to fall, I'd rather invest that $100k and rake when it bounces back. No disrespect to anyone buying, I still want one and think they are fantastic vehicles - their value is certainly worth more to some than others and it's nice to see so many demonstratively proud of theirs.
In the meantime, I'll continue to lurk and learn.

 

[Freshies]

It was a hard decision for us, but we decided to go ahead with our Model X purchase. I have reservations about some of the design choices (falcon doors, non-foldable 2nd row seats, immobile middle seat headrest, panoramic windshield) and concerns about reliability. I am also unsure about the long-term viability of Tesla Motors as a company. Despite these issues, we are going ahead because the Model X is the only option for an electric AWD SUV that seats 6/7 people for the foreseeable future. I told my wife that this will either be our best car decision we've made or our biggest mistake, heh.

I am happy that we ordered the 6 seater--the inability to carry skis in the vehicle and the poor rear-view mirror visibility in the 7 seater would have been big disappointments.

 

[aesculus]

It was a hard decision for us, but we decided to go ahead with our Model X purchase. I have reservations about some of the design choices (falcon doors, non-foldable 2nd row seats, immobile middle seat headrest, panoramic windshield) and concerns about reliability. I am also unsure about the long-term viability of Tesla Motors as a company. Despite these issues, we are going ahead because the Model X is the only option for an electric AWD SUV that seats 6/7 people for the foreseeable future. I told my wife that this will either be our best car decision we've made or our biggest mistake, heh.

I am happy that we ordered the 6 seater--the inability to carry skis in the vehicle and the poor rear-view mirror visibility in the 7 seater would have been big disappointments.

Total echo with all your points at my household too. I will save you a place in the doghouse if it turns out we were wrong.:smile:

 

[Vizir]

Total echo with all your points at my household too. I will save you a place in the doghouse if it turns out we were wrong.[emoji2]

Exactly the same story in my home. [emoji1]

 

[mymacbook]

The Tesla Product Specialists were trained in something I didn't know about and can't find in the manual. The FWD can be opened or closed manually if necessary. The release is well hidden but it does work. I tried it on my broken door at home. Sure enough, you can push the door further up than normal travel. Takes a bit of effort, and there is no warning if you get it near an object. Manual closing was interesting. I gently closed the door, but it seemed ajar. I pushed the top down, and the bottom pulled in. Seems the bottom latch remains operational, even though the movement circuits in my broken door were not operational. It is comforting to know that with some special effort, the doors could be opened if there was no other way out. While no tools are required, I would not recommend trying it, and that is why I won't mention the hidden release location here (don't look for it, it's even hidden after you remove a special panel from the inside). Call Tesla Motors if you need to know. There are other parts in the area that could be damaged, especially when the panel is removed or replaced, and I don't want to be responsible for that.

I believe this is publicly available under the first responders page. The release is behind the speaker according to that document.

I disagree wholeheartedly that this needs to be a secret. I have a family and own a rear-facing model S. It was priority number one for me to learn everything about manual release for doors not just in the back seat, but the manual release for the trunk. We teach EVERYONE in our family and have them PRACTICE the manual release. I want us to be prepared and knowledgeable in the event of an emergency and loss of power. In fact the car is designed to disconnect high voltage in the event of an accident, it is very feasible that the 12V will fail in such an event as well.

My wife ordered, confirmed, and received her VIN – but we did not confirm until we verified there were manual releases in the trunk AND FWDs. Why the trunk in the Model X? Well she chose the 7 seat option and after sitting in the back row at the Model X Reveal event, it was made clear to both of us that in the event of a power failure (12 V), we wouldn't "fit" to reach the falcon wing doors with the 2nd row seats in the way. More so with the new headrests that don't move and the seats don't flip down without electricity you would be unable to climb OVER the 2nd row seats. Your only exit option would be the rear trunk. At first we got scared as the public first responders document did NOT have a manual release listed for the trunk on Model X (and still does not). However, someone shared their Model X Owners Manual PDF on dropbox and indeed we learned the location of the manual release and felt confident enough to confirm the order.

The very first thing we'll do when we get the Model X home, is have everyone practice the manual releases of each exit in the vehicle and their strategy for exiting in the event an emergency takes place. So I disagree with you and encourage everyone to put a plan in the back of their mind, consider practicing it, so that you are prepared – hope you never need it.

 

[Mark Z]

I believe this is publicly available under the first responders page. The release is behind the speaker according to that document...I disagree wholeheartedly that this needs to be a secret...We teach EVERYONE in our family and have them PRACTICE the manual release...

I was attempting to save everyone's speakers from fingers and hands poking holes in the speaker cones.

Enjoy finding the small wire to pull for the release and placing the rounded wire end back into a position that doesn't rattle.

 

[hidbigo]

Another X => S conversion

I joined the "bailed" club. Had been going back and forth, a real rollercoaster. Was very disappointed after the so called launch. Then got excited, frustrated... finally my wife decided to order it last week. And today we cancelled the order and switched it instead get a second Model S.
Basically the Model X is at the same time too big and too small. It's insanely wide on the outside, but with the thick FWDs not all that wide on the inside where it matters. Storage capacity is ridiculously small given its size. But what pushed us over the edge is that we still have no idea when we'd get it. And that the quality of the ones that have been delivered so far seems to be extremely hit and miss. I have personally seen 5 different Sig Model X and every single one had serious, serious fit and finish issues.

Tl;dr = Add me to the list of people who converted a long-standing Model X reservation to a Model S order, for reasons similar to @dirkhh.

A shade under three years ago, my wife and I were admiring a Model S in the local Tesla store. We lamented that our family of six would be too large for the car, given that our youngest would likely be outgrowing the rear-facing seats in short order. The salesperson responded, "You know, Tesla's next model will have room for seven adults, and it's scheduled to be out at the end of next year [2014]." Ten minutes later we had a deposit down on a Model X; U.S. Production sequence number in the 2800 range.

For most of the past three years, we waited patiently to see a Model X, even after losing the WA state sales tax exemption last June. All along we heard everybody who had a Model S describe it as the best car they'd ever owned. This impression was reinforced by a Model S test drive last fall. And then at the end of November, we got the Model X "Invitation to Configure" email. But we decided to wait to order until we could see the car in person and ideally take a test drive. We knew we weren't getting the P90D, so we were going to be waiting until "mid 2016" for the car regardless.

Finally, a few weeks ago, we got to see a Model X in person, courtesy of a public showing by one of the first Sig owners in our area. And it looks like a fabulous car. Tesla has put a lot of what they learned from Model S into Model X, and it shows. We were ready to place our order, but we had some concerns that were continuing to hold us back from committing. We decided, and then we wavered. We figured we'd probably wait another month or two to test-drive the X and do the "garage fit" test at home as a final step before ordering.

And then after further consideration, we decided to get the Model S instead. Why?

1. When we originally reserved a Model X back in 2013, we viewed it as the eventual replacement for our aging minivan. But echoing @dirkhh's comments above, the Model X is not a minivan replacement. It's the size of a minivan (but wider) on the outside and the size of a mid-sized SUV on the inside, comparable to the Acura MDX that we used to own. The third row is nice but nowhere near as big as in a minivan. And there's no exterior storage solution for the Model X that compares to our Thule roof box in cost and ease of use.
2. In a similar vein to #1, the oft-stated concerns about the lack of folding or removable middle-row seats.
3. Our oldest is heading off to college in the fall, so the number of times we need room for more than five is shrinking fast. This had been a key factor in our choosing Model X over Model S.
4. Seeing a Model X in person hit home that it's still a "v1" effort, even if it borrows heavily from the Model S, esp. in the powertrain and chassis. Some of it is fit-and-finish, and some is feature content. I look back at all of the changes that have been introduced to Model S during the past three years that are not backward-compatible, and I expect that the same will happen with the Model X. Personally I'm just not cut out to spend this much money on a v1.

As soon as we reached this decision, we knew it was the right one for us. And last week, we went into the Tesla Store and replaced our Model X reservation with a Model S order.

As part of this we're keeping our minivan as a backup vehicle for another year. If during this time we love our Model S but decide that we still need the 6-7 passenger capacity, we can revisit this decision then. Getting a Model X will only get easier if we can wait.

All of this said, we're thrilled to be getting the Model S and congratulate all of you who are sticking it out with the Model X. I know I will feel a twinge of jealousy the first time I pull up behind one in a parking lot and see the falcon-wing doors opening.

 

[MrBoylan]

Ugh, as the world's biggest Tesla fan, I didn't expect to cancel my Model X order but it looks like that's where I am now. Going in and out of our driveway is tricky even with our tiny little Highlander. We live in attached house in NYC and getting in and out requires navigating around my neighbor's car, backing up next to her car then driving straight up a narrow common driveway with concrete walls on both sides. I confirmed our X order in December but the width has been a nagging concern. So my DS was nice enough to get me a Model S for an overnight test drive from the Mt. Kisco store. Getting the car in and out, even with the backup camera was way too stress-inducing, particularly for my wife, who didn't even want to attempt it. We could fit (barely) with the S, but with the extra 4 to 5 inches of the X, it just wouldn't have been doable. The proximity sensors on the S were almost useless in this situation as they don't have the necessary precision. They kept telling me to STOP in no uncertain terms even though there were still a few inches of clearance. And yeah, the power retracting mirrors do help, but since the back haunches of the S are wider than the front, I had to put the mirrors back out to make sure the back fenders were clearing the wall.

So driving a Tesla was fun while it lasted: taking my hands off the wheel and feet off the pedals on the Grand Central Parkway while Autopilot chauffeured us around, leaving gas-powered cars in the dust at a traffic light, just because I could, geeking out over the massive 17-inch touch-screen control panel and "filling up" just by plugging in. But it looks like I will have to defer those Tesla dreams until they make something smaller (Model 3 or Model Y), or we move. Hey, anyone want to buy a nice 3-BR house in Astoria?

Anyway, I envy you all with the space and am looking forward to owning a skinnier Tesla one day. Peace out!

 

[AlMc]

Ugh, as the world's biggest Tesla fan, I didn't expect to cancel my Model X order but it looks like that's where I am now. Going in and out of our driveway is tricky even with our tiny little Highlander. We live in attached house in NYC and getting in and out requires navigating around my neighbor's car, backing up next to her car then driving straight up a narrow common driveway with concrete walls on both sides. I confirmed our X order in December but the width has been a nagging concern. So my DS was nice enough to get me a Model S for an overnight test drive from the Mt. Kisco store. Getting the car in and out, even with the backup camera was way too stress-inducing, particularly for my wife, who didn't even want to attempt it. We could fit (barely) with the S, but with the extra 4 to 5 inches of the X, it just wouldn't have been doable. The proximity sensors on the S were almost useless in this situation as they don't have the necessary precision. They kept telling me to STOP in no uncertain terms even though there were still a few inches of clearance. And yeah, the power retracting mirrors do help, but since the back haunches of the S are wider than the front, I had to put the mirrors back out to make sure the back fenders were clearing the wall.

So driving a Tesla was fun while it lasted: taking my hands off the wheel and feet off the pedals on the Grand Central Parkway while Autopilot chauffeured us around, leaving gas-powered cars in the dust at a traffic light, just because I could, geeking out over the massive 17-inch touch-screen control panel and "filling up" just by plugging in. But it looks like I will have to defer those Tesla dreams until they make something smaller (Model 3 or Model Y), or we move. Hey, anyone want to buy a nice 3-BR house in Astoria?

Anyway, I envy you all with the space and am looking forward to owning a skinnier Tesla one day. Peace out!

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Sorry to hear that. I can see a model3 in your future though! :wink:

 

[MrBoylan]

Sorry to hear that. I can see a model3 in your future though! :wink:

That's a distinct possibility. For now, we really like having seating for 7 though. And it's really unlikely that will be in the cards for the Model 3 or the Model Y. And owning two cars just doesn't make sense in the city (at least not for us).

We may not live in this house forever though - could trade it for two in the suburbs. But, other than the narrow driveway, we kinda like living in the city.

 

[mikevbf]

That's a distinct possibility. For now, we really like having seating for 7 though. And it's really unlikely that will be in the cards for the Model 3 or the Model Y. And owning two cars just doesn't make sense in the city (at least not for us).

We may not live in this house forever though - could trade it for two in the suburbs. But, other than the narrow driveway, we kinda like living in the city.

Sorry to hear that it will not work out. Though a far cry from a Model X, you might consider the up and coming PHEV Pacifica which would carry 7 and drive locally in all electric.

 

[aesculus]

Wow. So so sorry. All I can think about after seeing your pictures was:

Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall

 

[flankspeed8]

Wow. So so sorry. All I can think about after seeing your pictures was:

Brilliant. I can empathize with the poster as I am stuck with a 1923 garage that was built for a Model T not a Model S or X, but hopefully a 3.

 

[Hugh Mannity]

Am hoping not to bail, the wife is concerned the X will be too large. We shall see what it's like if we can book into the local test drive event next month. Fingers crossed!