Good deal on a P100D?

[Fragger]

Hello All,

Sold my previous Model S before the prices skyrocketing and car loans being so expensive so I have no idea if this is a good deal or not? Been itching to get back into one again.

Can someone tell me if a 2016 P100D with 61K miles for about $58K is a good deal with FSD and Free Premium connectivity?

Again, not familiar with how FSD works but if the info screen says, "Full Self Driving Capability: Included package" is that the same FSD that is sold for $15K today?

Looking for thoughts and education. Thanks.

 

[AMPd]

also, Carvana on brink of collapsing. They are starting to wholesale their inventory which is large. Will have further impact on used market overall.

Good way to track used market is to search Manheim auction site and read, read read. Over a period of several days or weeks if possible. Shows the overall used market trend in pricing. Which continues to fall..

Legit thinking of buying their stock right now because my goodness That 98.25% drop since the start of the year!

Friend of mine told me to purchase their stock last year because they were going to revolutionize the car market… lol


Sorry for going off topic: My opinion is if you can hold off on purchasing right now, do so! The prices can only keep falling, the chip shortage is not as bad anymore, the economy is not doing so well, the interest rates are quite a bit higher.
All of that combined turns the used car market into a buyers market, and if you can wait a bit longer I’m certain you’ll get a great deal.

 

[Fragger]

Legit thinking of buying their stock right now because my goodness That 98.25% drop since the start of the year!

Friend of mine told me to purchase their stock last year because they were going to revolutionize the car market… lol


Sorry for going off topic: My opinion is if you can hold off on purchasing right now, do so! The prices can only keep falling, the chip shortage is not as bad anymore, the economy is not doing so well, the interest rates are quite a bit higher.
All of that combined turns the used car market into a buyers market, and if you can wait a bit longer I’m certain you’ll get a great deal.

Legit thinking of buying their stock right now because my goodness That 98.25% drop since the start of the year!

Friend of mine told me to purchase their stock last year because they were going to revolutionize the car market… lol


Sorry for going off topic: My opinion is if you can hold off on purchasing right now, do so! The prices can only keep falling, the chip shortage is not as bad anymore, the economy is not doing so well, the interest rates are quite a bit higher.
All of that combined turns the used car market into a buyers market, and if you can wait a bit longer I’m certain you’ll get a great deal.

Thank you for your response. I think your advice about waiting is sound. It's kinda unprecedented, the way the prices are falling! I guess regression to the mean?

With that said, I still can't truly make the call whether this is a deal to jump on or keep waiting. Looks like it's a 2016 S, 61K miles, FSD and possibly Unlimited Supercharging... Now for about $57K. I saw one that went yesterday for the same specs, except 47K miles for about $67K.



Slightly related, but off topic for you guys:

How accurate is this site? Especially for the cars being sold by the dealers and not Tesla? https://ev-cpo.com/?lookup



Lastly, can someone walk me through the progression of the Model S, in terms of range and performance for the P100D? My understanding is:

Till about 2019, P100D was 315 miles of range, 2.5 0 - 60 seconds. Then came the "Raven" Model S in late 2019 which was ~330 miles and 2.1 for 0 - 60. To the latest one that is Plaid which is the same range, but goes 0 - 60 down to 1.9 seconds?

I really start getting confused from 2019 between Performance, LR, LR+ Raven, and now the Plaid. Appreciate all the helpful responses, my friends!

 

[AMPd]

Thank you for your response. I think your advice about waiting is sound. It's kinda unprecedented, the way the prices are falling! I guess regression to the mean?

With that said, I still can't truly make the call whether this is a deal to jump on or keep waiting. Looks like it's a 2016 S, 61K miles, FSD and possibly Unlimited Supercharging... Now for about $57K. I saw one that went yesterday for the same specs, except 47K miles for about $67K.



Slightly related, but off topic for you guys:

How accurate is this site? Especially for the cars being sold by the dealers and not Tesla? https://ev-cpo.com/?lookup



Lastly, can someone walk me through the progression of the Model S, in terms of range and performance for the P100D? My understanding is:

Till about 2019, P100D was 315 miles of range, 2.5 0 - 60 seconds. Then came the "Raven" Model S in late 2019 which was ~330 miles and 2.1 for 0 - 60. To the latest one that is Plaid which is the same range, but goes 0 - 60 down to 1.9 seconds?

I really start getting confused from 2019 between Performance, LR, LR+ Raven, and now the Plaid. Appreciate all the helpful responses, my friends!

67k for a 2016 seems really high.
Here’s a 2021 Performance with 21k miles for 78.9k

Used 2021 Tesla Model S Performance AWD *Ltd Avail* For Sale in Beverly Hills - Serving Los Angeles CA | VIN: 5YJSA1E47MF423804

If you are in the market for a used 2021 Tesla Model S Performance AWD *Ltd Avail* For Sale in Beverly Hills CA or the surrounding areas, we are your destination. Give us a call at (424) 281-5600 to schedule a test drive today!

www.audibeverlyhills.com

Seems like a good deal to me. I’m actually thinking of pulling the trigger on it… my wife is not helping by actually telling me to get it! … she might be tired of me talking about upgrading to a newer one and just trying to get me to finally do it and shut up about it

 

[Fragger]

67k for a 2016 seems really high.
Here’s a 2021 Performance with 21k miles for 78.9k

Used 2021 Tesla Model S Performance AWD *Ltd Avail* For Sale in Beverly Hills - Serving Los Angeles CA | VIN: 5YJSA1E47MF423804

If you are in the market for a used 2021 Tesla Model S Performance AWD *Ltd Avail* For Sale in Beverly Hills CA or the surrounding areas, we are your destination. Give us a call at (424) 281-5600 to schedule a test drive today!

www.audibeverlyhills.com

Seems like a good deal to me. I’m actually thinking of pulling the trigger on it… my wife is not helping by actually telling me to get it! … she might be tired of me talking about upgrading to a newer one and just trying to get me to finally do it and shut up about it

Yeah, the 67K sounded like overpriced to me, but the dealer kept flexing on it having FSD, FUSC, and 47K miles.

What did you think about my other example? 2016, $57K, 61K miles and FSD, Free Premium Connectivity, and possibly FUSC?

 

[Cheburashka]

Thank you for your response. I think your advice about waiting is sound. It's kinda unprecedented, the way the prices are falling! I guess regression to the mean?

With that said, I still can't truly make the call whether this is a deal to jump on or keep waiting. Looks like it's a 2016 S, 61K miles, FSD and possibly Unlimited Supercharging... Now for about $57K. I saw one that went yesterday for the same specs, except 47K miles for about $67K.



Slightly related, but off topic for you guys:

How accurate is this site? Especially for the cars being sold by the dealers and not Tesla? https://ev-cpo.com/?lookup



Lastly, can someone walk me through the progression of the Model S, in terms of range and performance for the P100D? My understanding is:

Till about 2019, P100D was 315 miles of range, 2.5 0 - 60 seconds. Then came the "Raven" Model S in late 2019 which was ~330 miles and 2.1 for 0 - 60. To the latest one that is Plaid which is the same range, but goes 0 - 60 down to 1.9 seconds?

I really start getting confused from 2019 between Performance, LR, LR+ Raven, and now the Plaid. Appreciate all the helpful responses, my friends!

Raven and newer models charge way faster than P100D at a supercharger.

Personally I'd rather charge faster than charge free.

 

[AMPd]

Yeah, the 67K sounded like overpriced to me, but the dealer kept flexing on it having FSD, FUSC, and 47K miles.

What did you think about my other example? 2016, $57K, 61K miles and FSD, Free Premium Connectivity, and possibly FUSC?

FUSC is nice if you have the time, as cheburashka pointed out, those older cars with free supercharging charge slower.

57K for a 6 year old car with 2 years of battery and drive unit warranty sounds a bit steep to me. I’d offer them 50k if they take it cool, if not, again prices are only going down. I took a drive around our local auto mall and various dealerships. The lots are filled with cars, it’s definitely turning into a buyers market and as a buyer myself I say get the best deal you can!

Don’t let the dealers alligator tears sway you into overpaying, they had no problem adding 20-30k on top of MSRP and ripping people off when there was a shortage of cars.
Our local Audi dealer had an e tron in stock, MSRP 65k, on sale for 95k. They wouldn’t budge on the price because there was a shortage. My wife really wanted to buy it but not at 30k over msrp

 

[Fragger]

Raven and newer models charge way faster than P100D at a supercharger.

Personally I'd rather charge faster than charge free.

Raven and newer models charge way faster than P100D at a supercharger.

Personally I'd rather charge faster than charge free.

Interesting bit of information, would you happen to know... How much faster?

I really wonder if someone has done the math on the value of free Supercharging and connectivity, over the newer warranty and faster charging.

Finally, would you happen to know the evolution and when the P100D went to Performance, Performance (Raven - is this 3 motors or Dual motors?), Plaid? Or is there something else in there as well?

 

[Fragger]

FUSC is nice if you have the time, as cheburashka pointed out, those older cars with free supercharging charge slower.

57K for a 6 year old car with 2 years of battery and drive unit warranty sounds a bit steep to me. I’d offer them 50k if they take it cool, if not, again prices are only going down. I took a drive around our local auto mall and various dealerships. The lots are filled with cars, it’s definitely turning into a buyers market and as a buyer myself I say get the best deal you can!

Don’t let the dealers alligator tears sway you into overpaying, they had no problem adding 20-30k on top of MSRP and ripping people off when there was a shortage of cars.
Our local Audi dealer had an e tron in stock, MSRP 65k, on sale for 95k. They wouldn’t budge on the price because there was a shortage. My wife really wanted to buy it but not at 30k over msrp

You said it, perfectly, good Sir. Both on the value of this particular car (I'm thinking 50 too, but I highly doubt the guy will go there right now)... And the dealers in general having a field day on people. Not just dealers, I heard private sellers flipped Teslas and really price gouged everyone around them.

I guess the FSD is a significant add on the car I mentioned? Since now it's 15K? I also don't know the difference between FSD on HW2.5 vs. HW3... ...

 

[beatle]

Thank you for your response. I think your advice about waiting is sound. It's kinda unprecedented, the way the prices are falling! I guess regression to the mean?

With that said, I still can't truly make the call whether this is a deal to jump on or keep waiting. Looks like it's a 2016 S, 61K miles, FSD and possibly Unlimited Supercharging... Now for about $57K. I saw one that went yesterday for the same specs, except 47K miles for about $67K.



Slightly related, but off topic for you guys:

How accurate is this site? Especially for the cars being sold by the dealers and not Tesla? https://ev-cpo.com/?lookup



Lastly, can someone walk me through the progression of the Model S, in terms of range and performance for the P100D? My understanding is:

Till about 2019, P100D was 315 miles of range, 2.5 0 - 60 seconds. Then came the "Raven" Model S in late 2019 which was ~330 miles and 2.1 for 0 - 60. To the latest one that is Plaid which is the same range, but goes 0 - 60 down to 1.9 seconds?

I really start getting confused from 2019 between Performance, LR, LR+ Raven, and now the Plaid. Appreciate all the helpful responses, my friends!

Seems a bit high for that car. I'm not sure of your question about how "accurate" EV-CPO.com is. It's a site for browsing Tesla's inventory. It doesn't search 3rd party dealers. When doing research, I will say that paying for a subscription was kind of a waste to see previous sales. They show up but they're not sorted by date, so you can't tell when a car sold. With prices as upside down as they are now, you can't always assume the lowest sale prices are the most recent.

 

[Fragger]

Seems a bit high for that car. I'm not sure of your question about how "accurate" EV-CPO.com is. It's a site for browsing Tesla's inventory. It doesn't search 3rd party dealers. When doing research, I will say that paying for a subscription was kind of a waste to see previous sales. They show up but they're not sorted by date, so you can't tell when a car sold. With prices as upside down as they are now, you can't always assume the lowest sale prices are the most recent.

You are right about the function of that site. That's how I found my first CPO there. But they have this tool there that searches on VINs and pulls the codes that were dispersed by Tesla on them. Seems like, it only works for earlier models and not every VIN pulls on it...

Like I ran a search on one of the cars I was interested in. Dealer pictures show FSD computer and it's an included package on the infotainment screen. But the site only pulls the codes for AP2.

Now I don't know how that works and accurate it is for the present point in time. For example, it still says SC01 on it... But no idea if that's still true or not. Thus I was asking what the experience here was for people...

 

[beatle]

Ahh, the option code lookup. I would not put too much stock in that. Not because the site is necessarily wrong, but because Tesla is often wrong. They may change the features after the car is built, or they may be wrong from the get-go.

When I bought my 2015 used from Tesla, I asked the SA if it had the performance plus suspension and he said no. However, that car did have the plus suspension. Later, they removed Ludicrous mode from my car, claiming that it was not built with it so therefore it did not show up on the MVPA and therefore they could not reinstate it. Of course it wasn't built with Ludicrous mode, no P85D was - it was a feature Tesla created, sold, and added after the cars were built. Fortunately the SA had confirmed with me before I bought the car that it did have Ludicrous mode, and once I showed them that saved email, they reinstated Ludicrous mode.

Anyway, long story short - I would always double check that the car has the important features the option code lookup tool says it has. For FSD, that computer could have been added after the car was built. I am a little fuzzy on the details, but the earlier cars who purchased the FSD feature but were not equipped with the hardware at the time were later retrofitted by Tesla with the upgraded computer. This may explain the discrepancy. I would trust what the car says it has.

 

[Fragger]

Ahh, the option code lookup. I would not put too much stock in that. Not because the site is necessarily wrong, but because Tesla is often wrong. They may change the features after the car is built, or they may be wrong from the get-go.

When I bought my 2015 used from Tesla, I asked the SA if it had the performance plus suspension and he said no. However, that car did have the plus suspension. Later, they removed Ludicrous mode from my car, claiming that it was not built with it so therefore it did not show up on the MVPA and therefore they could not reinstate it. Of course it wasn't built with Ludicrous mode, no P85D was - it was a feature Tesla created, sold, and added after the cars were built. Fortunately the SA had confirmed with me before I bought the car that it did have Ludicrous mode, and once I showed them that saved email, they reinstated Ludicrous mode.

Anyway, long story short - I would always double check that the car has the important features the option code lookup tool says it has. For FSD, that computer could have been added after the car was built. I am a little fuzzy on the details, but the earlier cars who purchased the FSD feature but were not equipped with the hardware at the time were later retrofitted by Tesla with the upgraded computer. This may explain the discrepancy. I would trust what the car says it has.

Very helpful response, thank you! So lucky for you that you got your Ludicrous reinstated. I owned a P90D before trying to buy my next one, but, they ripped off the Ludicrous from it when it went to CPO. I only saw the ghost of it on the badge haha!

I created another thread on best practices people can share to give us the best shot retaining features like FUSC, Free Premium Connectivity and even FSD, but that thread is quiet for now.

I was wondering if you had any tips for it? Especially when buying from a dealer?

Again, appreciate your helpful response, thank you!

 

[2101Guy]

Also, be wary of the "free FSD". Meaning, Tesla values FSD at $15k, but VERY few buyers/owners value it anywhere close to that on the used market. Also, Tesla doesnt value it at $15k when you trade in. Meaning, get a trade in value appraisal from Tesla for a Tesla without FSD and then get value for exact same car WITH FSD. The latter will NOT be $15k higher offer from Tesla...

 

[Fragger]

Also, be wary of the "free FSD". Meaning, Tesla values FSD at $15k, but VERY few buyers/owners value it anywhere close to that on the used market. Also, Tesla doesnt value it at $15k when you trade in. Meaning, get a trade in value appraisal from Tesla for a Tesla without FSD and then get value for exact same car WITH FSD. The latter will NOT be $15k higher offer from Tesla...

Good call, thank you. Sellers and dealers definitely flex it to justify the price. The more I learn about it, the more I'm learning that it's a miracle that these even survive the transfer of ownership when we buy from Dealers!

 

[EV-CPO]

How accurate is this site? Especially for the cars being sold by the dealers and not Tesla? https://ev-cpo.com/?lookup

As mentioned above- EV-CPO only lists new and used cars for sale direct from Tesla. No third parties. EV-CPO attempts to collect and list every car listed for sale on Tesla's own website.

When doing research, I will say that paying for a subscription was kind of a waste to see previous sales. They show up but they're not sorted by date, so you can't tell when a car sold.

Thanks for your subscription and sorry you had a less-than-positive experience. In fact, with the data archive subscription, you can display and sort on "Build Date', "Date Added" and "Date Removed" fields if you add those columns to the table using the Column Selector. Once added, you can sort on those (and every other field) in the resulting data table.

You are right about the function of that site. That's how I found my first CPO there. But they have this tool there that searches on VINs and pulls the codes that were dispersed by Tesla on them. Seems like, it only works for earlier models and not every VIN pulls on it...

The information that does appear in the Option lookup page are only for cars that have been listed on Tesla's website and EV-CPO. It's a great reference to find all the options for any such car as it was originally sold. As mentioned above, options can be added after the first sale.

If you come across a used car from a dealer or private seller, it's also a good check to see if the car was previously sold as inventory or used by Tesla in the past, and what the configured options were.

 

[Fragger]

As mentioned above- EV-CPO only lists new and used cars for sale direct from Tesla. No third parties. EV-CPO attempts to collect and list every car listed for sale on Tesla's own website.



Thanks for your subscription and sorry you had a less-than-positive experience. In fact, with the data archive subscription, you can display and sort on "Build Date', "Date Added" and "Date Removed" fields if you add those columns to the table using the Column Selector. Once added, you can sort on those (and every other field) in the resulting data table.

View attachment 891447



The information that does appear in the Option lookup page are only for cars that have been listed on Tesla's website and EV-CPO. It's a great reference to find all the options for any such car as it was originally sold. As mentioned above, options can be added after the first sale.

If you come across a used car from a dealer or private seller, it's also a good check to see if the car was previously sold as inventory or used by Tesla in the past, and what the configured options were.

Thank you for the information! It's helpful and makes sense!

 

[beatle]

Thanks for your subscription and sorry you had a less-than-positive experience. In fact, with the data archive subscription, you can display and sort on "Build Date', "Date Added" and "Date Removed" fields if you add those columns to the table using the Column Selector. Once added, you can sort on those (and every other field) in the resulting data table.

View attachment 891447

The information that does appear in the Option lookup page are only for cars that have been listed on Tesla's website and EV-CPO. It's a great reference to find all the options for any such car as it was originally sold. As mentioned above, options can be added after the first sale.

Ah, that's good to know. The site was still useful when I bought each of my cars though.