GOP tax reform bill would end the $7500 EV tax credit (and other tax related grousing and grumbling)

[mrongey]

Repealed as of Dec 31, 2017: https://waysandmeansforms.house.gov/uploadedfiles/tax_cuts_and_jobs_act_section_by_section.pdf

That page isn't loading for me. The full text is here, and I couldn't find anything about the credit.

https://waysandmeansforms.house.gov/uploadedfiles/bill_text.pdf

It looks like the credit for solar installations would be extended to 2021 though.

Edit: Disclaimer - I don't speak legalese very well.

 

[CarlitoDoc]

At the risk of getting "pounded" here: How bad is it if the "Federal Tax Credit" gets revoked? Wont that level the playing field that ICE companies (although most of them are heading towards EV or Hybrids anyway) complain about all the time?? Incentives will always be seen as a form of government intervention in business, and we (at least me) don't want/need that.

 

[gregincal]

That page isn't loading for me. The full text is here, and I couldn't find anything about the credit.

https://waysandmeansforms.house.gov/uploadedfiles/bill_text.pdf

It looks like the credit for solar installations would be extended to 2021 though.

Edit: Disclaimer - I don't speak legalese very well.

It's on Page 74. Repeal of Section 30D. Section 30D is the EV tax credit.

 

[WhiteMountains]

This is now confirmed. Can the title of the thread be changed? If not, we should start a new thread to make it clear.

Very sad that some in Congress are trying to eliminate this tax incentive. If it does pass, I will still buy the Model 3, but I may be more open to considering AWD.

 

[fengshui]

At the risk of getting "pounded" here: How bad is it if the "Federal Tax Credit" gets revoked? Wont that level the playing field that ICE companies (although most of them are heading towards EV or Hybrids anyway) complain about all the time?? Incentives will always be seen as a form of government intervention in business, and we (at least me) don't want/need that.

I think it's good for Tesla. They've always been operating under the assumption that it would be exhausted within some months of the release of the 3. It's the other car companies that were relying on it.

 

[mrongey]

It's on Page 74. Repeal of Section 30D. Section 30D is the EV tax credit.

Well, ****.

 

[T34ME]

Maybe Tesla will have to be my next next car. I can't help but think that this might be more common than you expect. Additionally even if I could wait, it would still result in less margin for Tesla. Sad day for me

Sometimes, "certain moderators" get all testy about talking politics on this forum. But politics is inextricably tied to the EV movement and you really can't talk about one without talking about the other. A minority in the US is getting what they didn't know they were voting for, in every sense of the word. This is all out war on the environmental movement. I am #RESIST by purchasing a model 3 regardless. I am a 'complete enthusiast' and I vote - carefully.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

At the risk of getting "pounded" here: How bad is it if the "Federal Tax Credit" gets revoked? Wont that level the playing field that ICE companies (although most of them are heading towards EV or Hybrids anyway) complain about all the time?? Incentives will always be seen as a form of government intervention in business, and we (at least me) don't want/need that.

It will defer (in my case) or eliminate some PEV sales at the lower end.

Will be very interesting to see what happens to prices, incentives and resale value of PEVs.
If prices don't move, expect ZEV credit prices to increase.

 

[mrkymarc]

I found it in there, Snow Drift's post has the text quoted. This doesn't make me rethink my Model 3 purchase long term, but may have me thinking about delaying my purchase to wait for AWD and maybe a model year or 2 to be certain any kinks are worked out. My current car is fine and before I knew about the Model 3 I had planned on holding on to it for longer. Obviously there is still big uncertainty if tax reform happens at all and if this provision makes it to the final bill.

The other question would be if any delay to the bill passing pushes it into 2018, will the effective date of the credits ending change at all? Imagine buying the car in February before any bill passes, but then the bill passes in March and is retroactive. That would not be fun. That gives me hope that delay of the bill into next year would push the credit repeal to 2019. That's probably be best case for Tesla, as they have used up their credits and everyone else is cut off. Still not great for EVs in general, though.

 

[ohmman]

Title modified.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

This is now confirmed. Can the title of the thread be changed? If not, we should start a new thread to make it clear.

Very sad that some in Congress are trying to eliminate this tax incentive. If it does pass, I will still buy the Model 3, but I may be more open to considering AWD.

Title modified.

Hmm. I thought the previous title was still acceptable because it had "Could" in the title. There's no guarantee the current bill will pass. With the new title, many will believe it's already fact and is definitely going away.

 

[voip-ninja]

Sometimes, "certain moderators" get all testy about talking politics on this forum. But politics is inextricably tied to the EV movement and you really can't talk about one without talking about the other. A minority in the US is getting what they didn't know they were voting for, in every sense of the word. This is all out war on the environmental movement. I am #RESIST by purchasing a model 3 regardless. I am a 'complete enthusiast' and I vote - carefully.

Can you seriously please stop with the hyperbole? Because it's over the top.

There are 80 million vehicles sold globally every single year. I applaud Tesla for what they are doing, however you and others need to stop with the end of the world doomsday predictions that without Tesla we are all screwed.

Tesla is a drop in the bucket. What they are doing is demonstrating that EVs can be sexy non-weirdmobiles that can compete with mainstream offering from major luxury auto makers.

That's it.

Tesla selling 100K cars a year or 500K cars a year is still an incredibly tiny fraction of the global vehicle footprint, and keep in mind that in many countries like India and China, cars don't even have to meet the emissions and fuel economy that they have to meet in the USA or Europe.

The tax credit has been tremendously beneficial to people who, for example, were able to purchase a Bolt or Leaf and get an electric car that was priced a little less than a comparably equipped ICE would have been. Basically the credit closed the gap even though without it the EV should be cheaper long term since it does not burn gasoline.

From a Tesla perspective what the tax credit has done is let wealthy .1% types buying $100K+ cars choose to splurge on the nicer interior options or have the auto pilot feature.

 

[TexasEV]

I think it's good for Tesla. They've always been operating under the assumption that it would be exhausted within some months of the release of the 3. It's the other car companies that were relying on it.

Exactly. Tesla doesn’t need the EV credit to sell as many Model 3s as it can make. Meanwhile all the legacy manufacturers coming out with their so-called “Tesla-killers” in the next few years won’t have a $7500 price advantage over the Tesla model it’s competing with.

 

[ohmman]

Hmm. I thought the previous title was still acceptable because it had "Could" in the title. There's no guarantee the current bill will pass. With the new title, many will believe it's already fact and is definitely going away.

Thanks, I assumed that it was self-evident that the bill might not pass, but that's probably because I follow these things more closely. I've changed it again to something a bit more clear.. I hope.

 

[T34ME]

I think it's good for Tesla. They've always been operating under the assumption that it would be exhausted within some months of the release of the 3. It's the other car companies that were relying on it.

All EV makers, including TESLA, were going to sink or swim on their own without the tax credit anyway. TESLA would have been exhausting their EV tax credit before any other EV makers. I am betting TESLA will be swimming strong within a year while the legacy makers will continue to flounder if not sink with their current EV products and no tax credit. I could see TESLA offering a way stripped down model 3 for under $30K IF the tax credit is eliminated. This proposed budget has a long way to go before it gets approval.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Thanks, I assumed that it was self-evident that the bill might not pass, but that's probably because I follow these things more closely. I've changed it again to something a bit more clear.. I hope.

Works for me! Thanks.

 

[RVD98072]

This probably won't be popular around here and I like free money and tax credits as much as the next guy but the simple reality is that I take advantage of the $7500 tax credit because it's there but it has zero bearing on my decision to buying a Tesla.

I live in WA state where there is no state tax benefit for buying a Tesla (other electric cars (cheaper ones) don't pay sales tax so you save ~10%).

But I still bought a Tesla.

So I'm fine with them removing the $7500 tax credit.

I also feel that at this point, it's no longer needed to entice the public into buy electric cars.

 

[ohmman]

Sometimes, "certain moderators" get all testy about talking politics on this forum.

It's not about "certain moderators," or at least it shouldn't be. The Terms and Rules on this site state that:

TeslaMotorsClub.com is not the place for debate on religion, sex, politics, or other such controversial posts not directly related to issues having to do with electric cars

The admins of this site have made the rules, and as volunteer moderators, we enforce them as best we can.

Sometimes, like in this thread, there are crossovers between politics and EVs. Sometimes posts are just partisan politics or bashing without any real or valuable tie to Tesla or electric vehicles. It's not trivial to suss out which posts are which, but we try to do our best to move posts that seem to invoke partisan politics unnecessarily. They are rarely deleted, so they're still part of the body of posts on this site, which is much different than other forums I've seen online.

Hope this helps and prepares participants for the inevitable posts that will be moved out of this thread.

 

[bkp_duke]

Anyone found what may / will happen to tax credits for solar and battery installs?

Currently it is 30% (batteries too if they are 100% charged from solar).

 

[bhzmark]

"(d) REPEAL OF SECTION 30D.— (1) IN GENERAL.—Subpart B of part IV of subchapter A of chapter 1 is amended by striking section 30D (and by striking the item relating to such section in the table of sections for such sub-part)."

"(e) EFFECTIVE DATE.— (1) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in para- graphs (2) and (3), the amendments made by this section shall apply to taxable years beginning after December 31, 2017."

. . . and the GOP proposed taking away the incentive before Tesla's competition gets any real benefit from it.

Maybe they should divert some resources back to S and X to take advantage of the likely higher demand for 2017 deliveries.