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Green New Deal
- Thread starter mspohr
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nwdiver
Well-Known Member
..... Fred Trump has been dead for 20 years.... how is that relevant?
Scientists and climate advisers condemn Tory environmental record
The Conservative party’s record on tackling the climate crisis has been condemned by leading scientists and former government advisers, as the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, warned that the forthcoming election was the last chance to halt the escalating emergency.
Experts accused the Conservatives of copying rightwing politicians in the US by deliberately weakening environmental protections. Meanwhile, analysis by Labour reveals that environmental policies put forward since 2017 and opposed by the Tories would have led to emissions reductions of over 70m tonnes a year by 2030 – more than the annual emissions of Portugal.
He said Labour’s green industrial revolution would create hundreds of thousands of “good, clean jobs that will transform towns, cities and communities that have been held back and neglected for decades”.
The Conservative party’s record on tackling the climate crisis has been condemned by leading scientists and former government advisers, as the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, warned that the forthcoming election was the last chance to halt the escalating emergency.
Experts accused the Conservatives of copying rightwing politicians in the US by deliberately weakening environmental protections. Meanwhile, analysis by Labour reveals that environmental policies put forward since 2017 and opposed by the Tories would have led to emissions reductions of over 70m tonnes a year by 2030 – more than the annual emissions of Portugal.
He said Labour’s green industrial revolution would create hundreds of thousands of “good, clean jobs that will transform towns, cities and communities that have been held back and neglected for decades”.
He did have a few jobs. I actually didn't mean to say that he didn't. I was somehow remembering someone else who described never working for a for-profit company. He discounted a few odd jobs during college summers.
Please clarify what jobs he actually held in the private sector and for how long. I think when you put together his life, he spent a very small amount of time working in the private sector. All I see possibly in the private sector was "carpenter" which may absolutely be for a non-profit or a government agency. Certainly being a teacher was not likely in the private sector and a psychiatric aide is similar.
So please enlighten me the exact details if you know them. Didn't mean to rub you the wrong way but a lack of private sector experience is an issue for me.
While capitalism has pillaged the planet, it has been responsible for pulling a great amount of people out of poverty. I think it is helpful to have spent some meaningful time in the private sector. Like maybe in the last 40 years?
The private sector is evil. It has destroyed the environment, community, and personal integrity.
Working in the private sector corrupts.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I don't. Again, we all live in the same society, we can all see the effects of the system on the populace. Working in government for as long as Sanders has without becoming a corrupted politician on the take is, unfortunately, an amazing feat in and of itself. Sanders has been consistently on the side of the people for his entire career. It's strange how in every other facet of life we want dedicated professionals with lots of experience, but when it comes to an honest politician experience and dedication is painted by some as a negative. Let's flip it this way, I'll assume you've never worked in government but I'll bet you can see where it's gone wrong. By your logic you can't understand government since you never worked in it.
I've never worked in government, but I have a close friend who did his entire career. The difference between business and government is that business is there to enrich the owners (and provide jobs) while government is there to provide opportunity and services that wouldn't otherwise be available to people. The problem arises when government is tried to be run like a business--that is to reduce expenses services are cut and so are opportunities for people. We can see that in the failed for-profit healthcare system, the failed for-profit prison system just to name a couple.
It is also what pays for government...for everything. Just go to 1976 USSR if you think the private sector is bad. Course that time machine thing...
Ok, I've worked in both. I think it is actually critical to have great people working in government. That is one of the weaknesses of the post Kennedy era, it rarely attracts great people anymore. My wife worked for the Feds down close to the Mall, 7 years as a scientist seeing congress's good work in action. Pass a law and then get lobbying money to keep law from actually doing what was desired. Drove her into deep depression. Govt managers more than happy to help hold meetings and increase staff while NOTHING got done.
Better people in govt make it harder for congress to be such a rent seeking bunch of losers. Rent seeking for such low low low rents.
Look at the company we are here supporting, or not. Tesla/Space X. SpaceX has done more to get humanity to actually live in space and explore than NASA despite a mere 10 years or so of existence, a small budget, a tiny staff. Sure NASA got some interesting research done but at what a cost; hundreds of billions. Even now NASA is wasting hundreds of millions in spending due to congress/def industry connections. Spacelink and Starship are the best shinning examples of for profit oriented vision and leadership. Tesla is the best example of a positive path forward to ending humanities reliance on fossil fuels for transportation. Also Tesla has probably the most compelling solution to increase the use of renewables at scale, solving storage and intermittent power challenges of renewables.
By itself Tesla will do more to move humanity forward on earth and Space X in the Space than the various govt institutions. Where the government has shined is in the decision to help Tesla get going. By providing tax credits to stimulate demand. That's an effective and useful role for government. It requires modest staff, diligent leadership, and great employees. We need our government institutions to be freed from the handicap of mediocrity. Clearly that can't happen with mediocre leadership and a green new deal driven by mediocre staff and a mediocre congress is unlikely to accomplish much. Just give the capitalistic system the incentives to achieve the goal and even a bit of extra sugar. The accomplishments of Tesla, Apple, Cisco, etc have changed the world, I'd say for better.
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SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I've worked in both private and government.
Private is far too often morally bankrupt and can be outright evil, but government is soul sucking incompetence
Private is far too often morally bankrupt and can be outright evil, but government is soul sucking incompetence
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
A large chunk of that is just confirmation bias. We need both. How well the capitalism works for you can come down to whether you're on the board of Boeing or on board a Boeing. Boeing failed and the FAA failed to catch the failure. Capitalism is the better driver of innovation. Public interest can help prevent innovation from plunging society into the ground.
Different tools for different tasks.
I'd say it all depends on who's running the government.
The Right Wing Libertarian Cato Institute rates Denmark as the best place to do business. They have efficient government.
Conservatives always say that government is incompetent. When they get into power they try to prove it.
My new job I'm working for a multinational corporation. I've seen WAY more incompetence in the past few weeks that I ever did when I worked for the government as a soldier in the army.
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nwdiver
Well-Known Member
I've always thought that was particularly ironic. Electing a conservative these days is a lot like hiring a pilot that doesn't believe airplanes can fly....
The US Chemical Safety and Hazard investigation board has a YouTube channel. 'Interesting' stuff. Really makes you appreciate the need to have an independent 3rd party making and enforcing rules. Gas monitors cost money but no.... you can't check for flammable vapors with a blow torch!
So so so so true. An embarrassment to our country. And still....if bernie sanders is nominated I'll be voting for anyone but him. Because he has proven that the only flight he cares about is the flight of my tax money to his pockets or his backers. Nothing accomplished. Someone earlier posted about all the meetings he's chaired and all I can say to that is ...yes...that is my problem with sanders. chairing committees never got anything done. Did Roosevelt ever chair a committee? Hell no he created a whole pre cia era off the books army to fight the Japanese BEFORE wwii, that's freaking leadership.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
The November 9-15th edition of The Economist had a couple relevant articles.
There is no perfect economic or governance system given human potential for greed and incompetence. Yet good governance and capitalism can play relatively well together - better than anything we have yet witnessed in human history.
Sweden and Norway have more billionaires per capita than the U.S. and these countries have low GINI coefficients (low income inequality).
The biggest problem with billionaires is "rent-seeking" and most of this comes from poor governance:
There is no perfect economic or governance system given human potential for greed and incompetence. Yet good governance and capitalism can play relatively well together - better than anything we have yet witnessed in human history.
Sweden and Norway have more billionaires per capita than the U.S. and these countries have low GINI coefficients (low income inequality).
The biggest problem with billionaires is "rent-seeking" and most of this comes from poor governance:
TheTalkingMule
Distributed Energy Enthusiast
Let's not lose perspective on where we are in human history as well. We're at the PEAK of scarcity on the cusp of abundance. Naturally we're gonna have this environment at a peak, that doesn't mean capitalism needs to go or even that regulation needs to be clamped down.
Capitalism is a tool in the toolbox, use it to speed the transition to abundance. We don't see Elon running around clamoring for Green New Deals. He's using technology to change civilization so we can all be better. Granted he's really doing it so he can go to Mars, but that's beyond the point!
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Elon is supportive of Yang's UBI so I'd bet he'd be in favor of at least some aspects of the Green New Deal. He understands that the transition to a sustainable economy and increased automation is going to cause economic issues for some people.
Man...ask anyone in DC, ask anyone that has served for anytime in the Senate or lobbied or worked in agencies...he's useless. Runs around stirring people up and doing nada. His whole life. I mean his whole life. I mean go to a cocktail party in Georgetown/palisades...not some PR shat. But if you want facts look at the library of congress data that shows he's just about the least effective, I think there is 1 other sen that is worse. Just 1. Most are ranked 3-10 times as highly. Bernie, let me add a spending amendment to your bill, sanders is a real piece of work. Knowing something of the city and the swamp I can say...I would vote for anyone else. Even trump...whom I consider an grifting, treasonous, tax cheat.
nwdiver
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