Green New Deal

[mspohr]

https://www.usnews.com/news/nationa...boris-johnson-is-discharged-opec-strikes-deal

POPE FRANCIS ON SUNDAY advocated for a form of universal basic income that would "dignify the noble, essential tasks" carried out by street vendors, small farmers, construction workers and caregivers around the world.

The message turned heads in the U.S., coming just weeks after lawmakers finalized a plan to distribute direct cash transfers to many Americans – and just months after entrepreneur Andrew Yang made waves in the Democratic presidential primaries on a policy platform based around the adoption of a universal basic income.

"Game-changing," Yang tweeted of the Pope's suggestion.

 

[eevee-fan]

https://www.usnews.com/news/nationa...boris-johnson-is-discharged-opec-strikes-deal

POPE FRANCIS ON SUNDAY advocated for a form of universal basic income that would "dignify the noble, essential tasks" carried out by street vendors, small farmers, construction workers and caregivers around the world.

The message turned heads in the U.S., coming just weeks after lawmakers finalized a plan to distribute direct cash transfers to many Americans – and just months after entrepreneur Andrew Yang made waves in the Democratic presidential primaries on a policy platform based around the adoption of a universal basic income.

"Game-changing," Yang tweeted of the Pope's suggestion.

Love how the 'right' have misconstruded the words of God and now bow down to their false god of gold, or in this case, fake gold... hm... wonder who that could be.

+1 Pope!

 

[rays427]

The US is government by the rich and for the rich. Other countries do a better job of keeping the rich under control.

As far as taxing the Nordic countries tax their middle class and poor at a much higher rate than in the US. Most do have a higher maximum income tax but it cuts in at a much lower rate than the US. In addition they have a 25% VAT that hits everyone including the poor. Their corporate taxes, capital gains and dividend taxes are about the same as the US which is what hits most super rich.

 

[mspohr]

Coronavirus has destroyed the myth of the deficit

Coronavirus has destroyed the myth of the deficit | Yeva Nersisyan and L Randall Wray

Buying into the deficit myth, for generations we have been living below our means – paralyzed by the belief that finance is the constraint. Prolonged periods of slack and jobless recoveries have disincentivized investment and hurt our productive capacity and labor productivity


It is imperative that we resist. What progressives need to push for is creating a different kind of economy through a Green New Deal. To do so, we need to distinguish between the myths and real constraints, understanding “that what is technically feasible is financially possible” for a sovereign government. Affording the Green New Deal is about real resources and technology, not about finance.

 

[ZeApelido]

Top .1% paid 19.34% of federal income tax and the bottom 50% paid 3.11%. That seems fairly progressive to me. By the way most ultra wealthy probably make most of their income from capital gains and dividends rather than salaries. US maximum federal capital gains and dividend tax is 23.8%. Including state taxes the average is 28.6% which is higher than the average OECD rate. In California the maximum is 37.1% including the 13.3% maximum state tax. Scandinavian Capital gains and dividend tax rates are about the same as the US. So there ultra wealthy probably end up paying about what they would if they were in the US. In fact in high tax states they would probably pay more in the US. Their maximum income taxes are generally higher but they kick in at much lower rate. This makes them less progressive. In addition they have 25% VAT which everyone must pay including the poor.

Huh? Say you have Person A who makes 10,000 a year, and Person B who makes 1,000,000 a year. If you had a flat tax rate (not progressive!) for everyone of 10%, then Person A pays $1,000, Person B pays $100,000. Person B paid ~ 99% of the total tax paid of both people.

Yet it wasn't progressive.

Progressive is when the percentage (or ratio) of income that is paid in tax is higher. You have to do a little more math to determine if that's the case.

Oh and include stock / capital gains in earnings as well.

 

[SDRick]

I haven't given this much thought but I heard that the top 1% pays 50% of California's income tax. If this is correct, and we could somehow double the amount of these rich people, would that generate enough so most Californians would not have to pay any income tax?

 

[mspohr]

I haven't given this much thought but I heard that the top 1% pays 50% of California's income tax. If this is correct, and we could somehow double the amount of these rich people, would that generate enough so most Californians would not have to pay any income tax?

Or just double the amount of tax.

 

[mspohr]

South Korea Embraces EU-Style Green Deal For COVID-19 Recovery

The deal includes a carbon tax, a requirement to end investment in coal, and a focus on investment in renewable energy sources, as well as a hydrogen strategy.

. EU ministers last week said that despite the ongoing pandemic that has seen huge loss of life in some of Europe’s largest countries, the bloc would continue with the plan—and that in fact the framework of the plan would underpin coronavirus stimulus measures.

 

[SDRick]

Or just double the amount of tax.

They would move away more than they are doing now. Doubling the tax would not double the tax receipts.

 

[mspohr]

They would move away more than they are doing now. Doubling the tax would not double the tax receipts.

That's a common criticism of higher taxes. Not borne out by real world experience. The highest tax states have the most high income people.

 

[SDRick]

That's a common criticism of higher taxes. Not borne out by real world experience. The highest tax states have the most high income people.

Maybe not borne out in your real-world experience. High nets do leave California and New York for tax reasons. In any event, my main point was responding to the "just double the tax" comment. For a variety of reasons it will not double the tax receipts.

.

 

[Big Dog]

That's a common criticism of higher taxes. Not borne out by real world experience. The highest tax states have the most high income people.

Lies, damn lies, and statistics. We have no idea how many have moved out, so with lower taxes, CA could have xx more millionaires (or perhaps none). OTOH, Florida is chock-full of Yankee transplants for some reasons, weather likely being one.....

 

[mspohr]

What history can teach us about building a fairer society after coronavirus

What history can teach us about building a fairer society after coronavirus | Richard Power Sayeed

Across many of the countries affected by the pandemic, militants and reformers demanded change, and governments improvised public health innovations. The eventual result was the first phase of welfare state construction across the world, which climaxed with the Swedish social democrats’ ambitious reforms of the 1930s. These provided housing, childcare, child benefits, pensions and other social security. Once again, political organising in response to a pandemic had enabled enormous change.

In recent weeks, some people have optimistically predicted that the Covid-19 outbreak will force governments to build fairer economic systems. But the peasants’ story reminds us that change isn’t automatic, and Spain’s history shows that the bad guys can take advantage of a crisis, too. Look at the Hungarian prime minister, Viktor Orbán, seizing the right to rule by decree while citing Covid-19 as his excuse.

 

[mspohr]

Trump and His Allies Are Worried About More Than November Opinion | Trump and His Allies Are Worried About More Than November

But I think there’s another element underlying the push to reopen the economy despite the threat it poses to American lives, a dynamic beyond partisanship that explains why much of the conservative political ecosystem, from politicians and donors to activists and media personalities, has joined the fight to end the lockdown.

There’s no guarantee that Americans will respond to the pandemic and economic collapse with support for more and greater assistance from the federal government. But the possibility is there and it will become more apparent the longer this continues. If the rolling depressions of the late 19th century disrupted the social order enough to open the space for political radicalism — from the agrarian uprising of the Farmers’ Alliance to the militant agitation of the industrial labor movement — then the one-two punch of the Great Recession and the Pandemic Depression might do the same for us.

Yes, nothing is set in stone and, yes, events still have to unfold. But at this moment in American life, it feels as if one movement, a reactionary one, is beginning to unravel and another, very different in its outlook, is beginning to take shape.

 

[rays427]

Huh? Say you have Person A who makes 10,000 a year, and Person B who makes 1,000,000 a year. If you had a flat tax rate (not progressive!) for everyone of 10%, then Person A pays $1,000, Person B pays $100,000. Person B paid ~ 99% of the total tax paid of both people.

Yet it wasn't progressive.

Progressive is when the percentage (or ratio) of income that is paid in tax is higher. You have to do a little more math to determine if that's the case.

Oh and include stock / capital gains in earnings as well.

I'm in favor of a flat tax, however it would need to be much higher to get the same amount of money. In our current system the bottom 50% of earners pay an average 4% federal income tax and the top 1% pay 26.8%. So in your case the person making $10,000 would pay $400 and the person making $1,000,000 would pay, on average, $286,000 which is certainly more progressive. Using our current tax system a married couple with 2 small children making the median household income of $64,154 would owe about $600 in federal income tax. The family making $!,000,000 would, on average, still be about $286,000. So I see the present system as more progressive.

 

[rays427]

That's a common criticism of higher taxes. Not borne out by real world experience. The highest tax states have the most high income people.

It wouldn't take many of the really high income folks to move out of California to devastate the state. As and example Larry Ellison has 1,143,934,580 shares of Oracle which pays a dividend of 96 cents per share or over $1 billion per year. At approximately 13% tax rate it would cost California about $!30 million if he moves out of state not including any other income he might have.

 

[jerry33]

It wouldn't take many of the really high income folks to move out of California to devastate the state. As and example Larry Ellison has 1,143,934,580 shares of Oracle which pays a dividend of 96 cents per share or over $1 billion per year. At approximately 13% tax rate it would cost California about $!30 million if he moves out of state not including any other income he might have.

But doesn't he also have a private jet that's 100% deductible?

 

[S'toon]

 

[S'toon]

The rich pay the taxes because they own all the wealth.
CBS This Morning on Twitter
As a proportion of their income, they actually pay less of their income in taxes than the working class.

Mitt Romney famously paid only a 14% tax rate, and could have paid less if he had taken all of his deductions. He was making $20 million/yr when he ran for President.

Also when people of a certain political persuasion talk about taxes, they only talk about one form of taxes. They somehow forget to think about the taxes ordinary working people pay, which is disproportionate to their income that rich people don't. Sales taxes, and FICA taxes.

 

[S'toon]