Birds killed by cats tend to be common small birds like sparrows. The wind farms kill eagles, falcons, etc. They also kill millions of bats. As far as the countries that are shown that have high percentage of renewables most of it is from hydro and biomass not wind and solar. The only one that had large amount from wind was Denmark and they have one of the highest cost for electricity. 80 % of Sweden electricity is from hydro and nuclear. If wind and solar is so cheap then you would not need any push to use it. By the way pumped storage is great but you need a couple of large reservoirs and at least where I live in California the environmental folks are pushing to remove existing dams. So I don't know how you are going to get approval to build more dams.
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Green New Deal
- Thread starter mspohr
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Birds killed by cats tend to be common small birds like sparrows. The wind farms kill eagles, falcons, etc. They also kill millions of bats. As far as the countries that are shown that have high percentage of renewables most of it is from hydro and biomass not wind and solar. The only one that had large amount from wind was Denmark and they have one of the highest cost for electricity. 80 % of Sweden electricity is from hydro and nuclear. If wind and solar is so cheap then you would not need any push to use it. By the way pumped storage is great but you need a couple of large reservoirs and at least where I live in California the environmental folks are pushing to remove existing dams. So I don't know how you are going to get approval to build more dams.
Proper planning of wind farms reduces or eliminates migratory bird kill. You don't need more dams. Batteries are used to store energy--it has worked great in Austrailia. Where I live, the planned additional capacity is virtually all solar with some wind because it's way cheaper and it's much quicker to implement. The reason you need a push is to combat the FUD from the fossil fuel industry.
If wind and solar were actually less expensive you wouldn't need the government to push it. Battery storage is currently very expensive. In Australia the Horsdale battery cost around $50 million and can only power 30,000 homes for a short time. It is mainly meant to keep things running for up to 10 minutes until other generation (fossil fuel plants) can be put on line. It also stores energy from a wind farm and puts it into the grid when prices are high. It can provide 30 mw for 3 hours. So this is not what you need to keep everything running when the sun doesn't shine or the wind doesn't blow if you only had wind and solar. Australia uses averages around 711 GWH per day. I assume it also varies not only on a day to day basis but also between summer and winter. So the amount of storage required with only wind and solar would be huge. From what I could find on line the cost would be about 150 billion dollars to provide 1 day of storage. So as of now battery storage is extremely expensive.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
By that logic there shouldn't have been decades of support for fossil fuels.
What was the competition to fossil fuels? Any support kept the costs down which helped the folks purchasing it. This helped the poorest folks the most. However, most support for fossil fuels has been the same as other industries get. In addition it's not all support. Remember that gas taxes around the world generate Billions of dollars in tax revenue. In California the total state and federal tax per gallon is about 79 cents. That's nearly 25% of the total cost. What other commodities pay this kind of tax? In most European countries the motor fuel taxes are more than the total cost of producing the fuel.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Wind and Solar will continue to grow quickly without subsidies but the subsidies accelerate the growth further. Thanks to the pathetic dithering of your pathetic generation we're out of time and need every bit of acceleration we can get. You really... REALLY EFFED us... you failed us. Completely. Your generation is an utter disgrace.
The Guardian view on coronavirus and the climate crisis: seize this chance | Editorial
Over the last six months or so, the pandemic has not only demonstrated that change can be quicker than anyone anticipated, it has also offered a practical opportunity to reconfigure economies. Governments are spending money as they have never done in peacetime. Germany and South Korea have seized this chance for big green investments. Others, including the UK, have not. Shockingly, G20 countries are spending much more in support of fossil fuels than on low-carbon energy in their rescue packages; few even imposed green targets when they bailed out the airlines, as France did.
Over the last six months or so, the pandemic has not only demonstrated that change can be quicker than anyone anticipated, it has also offered a practical opportunity to reconfigure economies. Governments are spending money as they have never done in peacetime. Germany and South Korea have seized this chance for big green investments. Others, including the UK, have not. Shockingly, G20 countries are spending much more in support of fossil fuels than on low-carbon energy in their rescue packages; few even imposed green targets when they bailed out the airlines, as France did.
Without my generation and fossil fuels there would be several billion less folks because so many would have died. Their also would be no trees, because they would have all been cut down for fuel. As far as renewables look what is happening in California. The unreliable wind and solar is at about 35% and is now causing rolling blackouts. Wind and solar are economic until you need to provide backup power. So without my pathetic generation what do you think your life would be like today? Most likely you wouldn't even be alive.
Low reliability for only one reason...
How a Plan to Save the Power System Disappeared
Russia spans even more time zones and have even more barren plains for wind power.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Horses had their place until they caused so much pollution that fossil fuels replaced them. Fossil fuels are now causing so much pollution that they are being replaced by renewables. Your argument doesn't make sense in today's world.
Sometimes I sympathize with Libertarians. But then I watch something like Dirty Money and realize that it's everywhere.
His argument doesn’t make sense in any generation. He’s just playing favorites, fine with years of breaks for fossil and championing their “positive” externalities. If consistent, he should be all in on pushing renewables.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Related to the topic of wealth and wealth redistribution few people understand how much of their success is related to luck. As I've often said it's not that they worked harder than anyone else, though most would claim it to be.
Opinion | How the Green New Deal Saved a Senator’s Career
Senator Ed Markey, the Massachusetts Democrat who recently warded off a primary challenge from a Kennedy scion, probably saved his career by authoring the Green New Deal resolution with Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York last year.
“The best thing that Joe Biden could do would be to speak in clear, exciting visionary terms about exactly what he plans to do to tackle the climate crisis, racial inequality and economic inequality,” said Prakash.
Senator Ed Markey, the Massachusetts Democrat who recently warded off a primary challenge from a Kennedy scion, probably saved his career by authoring the Green New Deal resolution with Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York last year.
“The best thing that Joe Biden could do would be to speak in clear, exciting visionary terms about exactly what he plans to do to tackle the climate crisis, racial inequality and economic inequality,” said Prakash.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
The frustrating/sad part is that there are so many things that have become part of the libertarian cult. And once someone is in a cult it's darned near impossible to get them out. But maybe we don't have to. It's not too terrible if passengers of an airplane believe the invisible hand of the free market is using magic to make the plane fly so long as the pilot accepts and understands physics. We just need to keep cult members that believe in magic out of the cockpit somehow....
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Which is difficult when about half of the passengers are cult members, and probably some of the flight attendants...
Insightful article by James Galbraith.
Rebuilding the Economy Will Require Joe Biden to Think Very Differently Than 2009
These should aim at sustainable energy, mitigation of climate change, public health, and the reconstruction of life itself around safe and sustainable patterns of activity. Renewed infrastructure of all types, new transportation systems, new amenities, natural conservation, and cultural investments are all parts of this challenge. The Green New Deal is now doubly necessary, not only to transform the energy basis of the economy, but also to ensure that there is an economy to be transformed.
Rebuilding the Economy Will Require Joe Biden to Think Very Differently Than 2009
These should aim at sustainable energy, mitigation of climate change, public health, and the reconstruction of life itself around safe and sustainable patterns of activity. Renewed infrastructure of all types, new transportation systems, new amenities, natural conservation, and cultural investments are all parts of this challenge. The Green New Deal is now doubly necessary, not only to transform the energy basis of the economy, but also to ensure that there is an economy to be transformed.
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