Green New Deal

[nwdiver]

I don't disagree with any of what you posted, but that is NOT what S'toon said. In fact, s/he is wrong by saying: 'tax cuts are a drag on the economy'. On the contrary, following your point, a tax cut to poor folks will get spent immediately; heck, a tax cut to the lower half of the population (~$55k/yr) will mostly get spent quickly, creating even a larger multiplier effect.

As an aside, want to get money in people's hands fast? Just zero out the employee portion of the SS payroll tax, aka a 'tax cut'. (Yeah, that's a hit to the SS Trust fund, but if you want a multiplier effect, temporarily eliminating the SS payroll tax will get money multiplying...)

Thus not all tax cuts are bad, or a drag on the economy.

I would assume he was referring to a revenue neutral tax cut. A tax cut offset but a decrease in spending.

Yeah... if you can eliminate SS payroll tax while keeping SS payouts that would help. But if you have to eliminate SS payouts to eliminate the SS tax that would be counter-productive. Taxing and Spending is better for the economy because it's one more way to get money moving.

 

[Big Dog]

dupe, sry

 

[Big Dog]

I would assume he was referring to a revenue neutral tax cut. A tax cut offset but a decrease in spending.

Yeah... if you can eliminate SS payroll tax while keeping SS payouts that would help. But if you have to eliminate SS payouts to eliminate the SS tax that would be counter-productive. Taxing and Spending is better for the economy because it's one more way to get money moving.

And he'd still be wrong. But even among the Keynsians, a corporate tax cut still gives a 0.35 multiplier. yeah, it's much lower multiplier than say, Food Stamps, but it is not negative.

(goggle Mark Zandi at Moodys who was a popular econ source in the early days of the Obama WH, and is now involved in educating State and local governments, for a fee, I assume.)

If you want teh biggest bang for your government buck, it's prolly pure research some of which eventually turns into increased productivity, better living, etc.

 

[nwdiver]

If you want teh biggest bang for your government buck, it's prolly pure research some of which eventually turns into increased productivity, better living, etc.

There's a limit. And don't you think that R&D prolly needs the next generation of researchers to be able to obtain an education and not go to school hungry?

 

[mspohr]

And he'd still be wrong. But even among the Keynsians, a corporate tax cut still gives a 0.35 multiplier. yeah, it's much lower multiplier than say, Food Stamps, but it is not negative.

(goggle Mark Zandi at Moodys who was a popular econ source in the early days of the Obama WH, and is now involved in educating State and local governments, for a fee, I assume.)

If you want teh biggest bang for your government buck, it's prolly pure research some of which eventually turns into increased productivity, better living, etc.

Pure research has a payback delay of decades. Worthless as a stimulus. Besides, all increases in productivity for the past 40 years have gone to corporate profits, not workers. Government spending with the greatest velocity is giving money to poor people... food stamps, welfare, UBI, unemployment benefits, housing, health care and education. Forget corporations.

 

[rays427]

Pure research has a payback delay of decades. Worthless as a stimulus. Besides, all increases in productivity for the past 40 years have gone to corporate profits, not workers. Government spending with the greatest velocity is giving money to poor people... food stamps, welfare, UBI, unemployment benefits, housing, health care and education. Forget corporations.

The government giving money works great until you run out of other peoples money. Forget corporations? So I guess in your mind we would be better off by just eliminating corporations at let the government run everything? I'm sure that would work well.

 

[nwdiver]

The government giving money works great until you run out of other peoples money.

That's why you don't use other peoples money

If you need more $$$ just add another 0. $1,000,000,000 not enough? How about $10,000,000,000. You can always add more zeros

 

[JRP3]

The government giving money works great until you run out of other peoples money.

We never seem to run out of other people's money for the military and pointless wars though.

 

[ladysbff]

The government giving money works great until you run out of other peoples money. Forget corporations? So I guess in your mind we would be better off by just eliminating corporations at let the government run everything? I'm sure that would work well.

Yes! IDK if letting the government run everything would work well but I love your idea of just eliminating corporations.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Corporations concentrating wealth in the investor class is literally the source of most inequality and the erosion of rural America. Do we eliminate corporations? Hell no, they're a natural and vibrant part of our economy. They're a tool that in the Information Age can be used to concentrate wealth to a dangerous extent if not regulated properly.

 

[ladysbff]

Corporations concentrating wealth in the investor class is literally the source of most inequality and the erosion of rural America. Do we eliminate corporations? Hell no, they're a natural and vibrant part of our economy. They're a tool that in the Information Age can be used to concentrate wealth to a dangerous extent if not regulated properly.

/s to my comment above.

But regulations go against my freedom!

 

[mspohr]

We never seem to run out of other people's money for the military and pointless wars though.

The point of "tax the rich" is that they have lots of money and can fund a lot of social welfare programs. Not likely for the rich to run out of money but if they do, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[mspohr]

/s to my comment above.

But regulations go against my freedom!

Freedom to exploit others?

 

[MXLRplus]

The point of "tax the rich" is that they have lots of money and can fund a lot of social welfare programs. Not likely for the rich to run out of money but if they do, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

You are rich. Did you surrender your bank account to the government?

 

[ladysbff]

Freedom to exploit others?

Yes exactly. My freedom to willfully disregard the future of the Earth is a divine right. If the quality of life of its inhabitants is diminished as a result of my quest to hoard resources, then that's just natural selection.

 

[mspohr]

Universal basic income could decimate cities next year, one bank says in its ‘outlandish forecasts’

Among the predictions, the bank said that measures implemented by governments to support lost wages in response to the coronavirus pandemic could become permanent, and this new era of free money would crush commercial real estate.

"The risk that societies are entirely torn apart results in the realisation that the Covid-19 measures weren't a mere panic response, but the start of a permanent new universal basic income (UBI) reality," Saxo global macro strategist Kay Van-Petersen said in the report.

 

[jerry33]

Universal basic income could decimate cities next year, one bank says in its ‘outlandish forecasts’

Among the predictions, the bank said that measures implemented by governments to support lost wages in response to the coronavirus pandemic could become permanent, and this new era of free money would crush commercial real estate.

"The risk that societies are entirely torn apart results in the realisation that the Covid-19 measures weren't a mere panic response, but the start of a permanent new universal basic income (UBI) reality," Saxo global macro strategist Kay Van-Petersen said in the report.

Let's see. People will have some money to spend with UBI so local businesses will not be able to purchase any real estate. If people have no money to spend then businesses will be able to purchase commercial real estate. What's wrong with this picture?

 

[nwdiver]

You are rich. Did you surrender your bank account to the government?

I would gladly give 90% of every $1 I have >$10M

 

[JRP3]

I'd be happier if I knew it didn't go to the already bloated defense budget or wasteful kickbacks to the oil industry and similar industries. Probably be better off donating everything above 10 mil to a good charity, one that is vetted for how the donations are distributed. You can use something like GuideStar nonprofit reports and Forms 990 for donors, grantmakers, and businesses to check your favorite charity.

 

[nwdiver]

I'd be happier if I knew it didn't go to the already bloated defense budget.

Meh... at least with a large military gun nuts have a place to go where there's a little more adult supervision...