Green New Deal

[nwdiver]

The late Ordovician ice age occurred around 450 million years ago, when temperatures plunged 10C from "greenhouse conditions" despite CO2 levels of around 4500 ppm in comparison to today's level of 400 ppm, demonstrating that CO2 is not the "control knob" of climate.Apr 2, 2014.

??? You truly are a champion cherry picker. Creating a bullet that can penetrate Kevlar does not mean that Kevlar can't stop some bullets. The fact that some forcings can overpower CO2 does not mean that CO2 does not cause warming. It obviously does because Physics. Any number of things could have caused the Ordovician Ice Age. An unknown doesn't trump verified physics. 1812 was a 'year without a summer' because a Volcano spewed a ton of SO2 into the atmosphere. That proves that SO2 is a negative forcing agent NOT that CO2 isn't a positive forcing agent....

Ultimately, the time period of elevated pCO2 levels is followed by geologic evidence of deglaciation.​

As you state they can also be caused by orbital changes, the sun output and other factors.

Where is your evidence that any of that is currently in play? Orbital cycles should be causing a slight cooling. The suns output is also down. 'Other Factors'..... can you be more vague?

CO2 from fossil fuels fits the bill. Aside from the fact we can measure solar output and rule that out; If solar output had increased it wouldn't cause a drop in outgoing radiation OR a shrinking of the thermosphere. The Earth is warming because less energy is leaving. Orbital cycles cause warming largely through increasing CO2 levels so at best we're just making things a lot worse (and it's not orbital cycles). It's CO2 from us.

Probably... probably not the sun....

 

[jerry33]

The Ordovician extinctions happened in several waves over a long period of time (by human standards, although short in geologic time). Not 150 years. No correlation between the two.

 

[S'toon]

The Ordovician extinctions happened in several waves over a long period of time (by human standards, although short in geologic time). Not 150 years. No correlation between the two.

Aye. That's another thing that deniers always seem to overlook.

 

[mspohr]

The left must be bold and back a green new deal
The left must be bold and back a green new deal | Larry Elliott

It’s often said that real change takes place at a time of crisis, but that’s not the whole story. A crisis makes change possible, but only when new ideas are knocking about does it actually happen. Otherwise, it is soon business as usual. The US economist Milton Friedman understood that fact, which is why he toiled away in the political wilderness to plot the downfall of postwar social democracy and was fully prepared when trouble arrived in the mid-1970s.

 

[mspohr]

Progress !
Ocasio-Cortez, Markey to unveil ‘Green New Deal’ legislation

 

[mspohr]

Scientists say Ocasio-Cortez’s dire climate warning is spot on

“I think the part of it that is generational,” Ocasio-Cortez explained, “is that Millennials and people, you know, Gen Z and all these folks that will come after us, are looking up and we’re like: The world is going to end in 12 years if we don’t address climate change, and your biggest issue is how are we gonna pay for it?”

She added, “This is the war — this is our World War II.”

 

[nwdiver]

She added, “This is the war — this is our World War II.”

Imagine how hard that would have been if there had been (Insert adjective for people that deny objective reality) people denying the existence of Japan and Germany

 

[ohmman]

Imagine how hard that would have been if there had been (Insert adjective for people that deny objective reality) people denying the existence of Japan and Germany

It’s always easier to convince people of harm when the risk is posed by “the other”. When it’s self harm, it becomes markedly more difficult.

 

[ggies07]

Scientists say Ocasio-Cortez’s dire climate warning is spot on

“I think the part of it that is generational,” Ocasio-Cortez explained, “is that Millennials and people, you know, Gen Z and all these folks that will come after us, are looking up and we’re like: The world is going to end in 12 years if we don’t address climate change, and your biggest issue is how are we gonna pay for it?”

She added, “This is the war — this is our World War II.”

**** yeah! Man I love her.

 

[mspohr]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...-learn-first-new-deal/?utm_term=.296c583d5ca5

The hard part of a Green New Deal is not environmental reform. It is social justice.

Asked if nature-saving and modernizing changes might have come to the Tennessee Valley without the massive intervention of the TVA, a local newspaper editor pondered the question and then answered, “Well, they didn’t.” We have had decades to transform our society to meet the emergency of climate change and have not, either. It appears as though it will require an intensive effort of the scale and scope of a New Deal to do it. With luck and leadership we might replicate Rooseveltian successes without this time sacrificing so much social justice.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I always thought the video below is a good way to think about it. Even if one doesn't believe in climate change, there's still only one choice that make sense.

This deserves being posted again:

 

[mspohr]

This is interesting
European colonization of Americas helped cause climate change
European colonization of Americas helped cause climate change

The UCL researchers found that the European colonization of the Americas indirectly contributed to this colder period by causing the deaths of about 56 million people by 1600. The study attributes the deaths to factors including introduced disease, such as smallpox and measles, as well as warfare and societal collapse.

Researchers then calculated how much land indigenous people required and then subsequently fell into disuse, finding that around 55m hectares, an area roughly equivalent to France, became vacant and was reclaimed by carbon dioxide-absorbing vegetation.
The drop in temperature during this period is known as the “Little Ice Age”, a time when the River Thames in London would regularly freeze over, snowstorms were common in Portugal and disrupted agriculture caused famines in several European countries.

 

[mspohr]

Can the left unite to make a Green New Deal a reality?
Can the left unite to make a Green New Deal a reality?

Support seems to be solidifying for GND

 

[dhrivnak]

Imagine how hard that would have been if there had been (Insert adjective for people that deny objective reality) people denying the existence of Japan and Germany

In a way we were doing our best to ignore Germany over running Europe and Japan over running Asia. It was only when we were directly and overwhelming attacked did we wake up and confront the threat.

 

[rays427]

Scientists say Ocasio-Cortez’s dire climate warning is spot on

“I think the part of it that is generational,” Ocasio-Cortez explained, “is that Millennials and people, you know, Gen Z and all these folks that will come after us, are looking up and we’re like: The world is going to end in 12 years if we don’t address climate change, and your biggest issue is how are we gonna pay for it?”

She added, “This is the war — this is our World War II.”

You can't actually believe the world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change.

 

[jerry33]

You can't actually believe the world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change.

If global warming isn't seriously addressed, in about thirty years the lack of enough temperature difference between the poles and the equator will stop the ocean currents. When that happens, the world will be similar to a fish tank when the pump is turned off. Last time this happened, during the Permian extinction, 90% of marine life and 70% of land based life vanished. Even if that is incorrect, our insane race to hunt and kill for sport every species on the planet, will wipe out most of the animals above the size of a rabbit. Every year we procrastinate, means the cost of repair, if it's even possible, will be extremely high. We're playing Easter Island with the world. Not a promising picture.

My thought is that the twelve years is more to get governments off their tushies so that they actually do something substantial.

So the question is: What could we do that would make a significant difference. One action is to colour all the pavement and rooftops white--starting with the darkest colours (asphalt roads and tar rooftops). So if you own a property that has a flat roof, it either needs to be coloured while or be covered in vegetation. Inspections will need to be done so that they don't just plant and forget. This will cost, but the cost will be far less than the alternative.

 

[rays427]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...-learn-first-new-deal/?utm_term=.296c583d5ca5

The hard part of a Green New Deal is not environmental reform. It is social justice.

Asked if nature-saving and modernizing changes might have come to the Tennessee Valley without the massive intervention of the TVA, a local newspaper editor pondered the question and then answered, “Well, they didn’t.” We have had decades to transform our society to meet the emergency of climate change and have not, either. It appears as though it will require an intensive effort of the scale and scope of a New Deal to do it. With luck and leadership we might replicate Rooseveltian successes without this time sacrificing so much social justice.

Gee, something we agree on. The Green New Deal is as much about social justice as saving the environment. It basically wants to change the US into a socialist country where the government controls everything. How nice when everyone is guaranteed a living wage job no matter their output. Oh and how will you pay for this, by taxing the rich and corporations. So corporations will be required to pay everyone a living wage while increasing their taxes. I wonder what will happen to the prices of their products? In addition the price of their fuel will also increase I'm sure this will all make them much more competitive in the world economy. You will also tax the super rich at rates higher than anywhere else in the world and they will just pay it. Sounds Great!

 

[mspohr]

Green New Deal is starting to take shape.

Goals laid out in the letter include reaching net-zero greenhouse gas emissions “through a fair and just transition for all communities and workers,” creating millions of “good, high-wage jobs” while ensuring prosperity and economic security for all, and investment in infrastructure and industry.
The resolution will also call for clean air and water, climate resiliency, healthy food, access to nature and “a sustainable environment for all for generations to come,” according to the letter. Lastly, the Green New Deal will “promote justice and equity by preventing current and repairing historic oppression to frontline and vulnerable communities.”
She said the goals will be accomplished through a 10-year plan of industrial and infrastructure projects.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

 

[TheTalkingMule]

All this talk of "the left" doing this or that to save the day is depressing. The root of all our problems is division within the 99%. The sustainable solutions to all our problems appeal to all leanings.

Sometimes your efforts to push something are what's holding it back. Marketing this revolution as a weapon of the left is a major mistake that will bring short term resistance.

 

[mspohr]

An Energy Wish List for Congress Opinion | An Energy Wish List for Congress

There is hope for some clean energy legislation this year.
Republicans and Democrats in the Senate seem to be poised to agree to a few things.
Clean energy R and D, tax breaks, EV incentives, electricity transmission, offshore wind are on the table