Greenercars.org still hates Tesla

[chickensevil]

They have no reason for ruffled feathers. Your response was polite, well-reasoned, and fact-based. No histrionics or ad-hominem attacks. If they do have ruffled feathers it's due to their personality rather than your approach. Well done!

Thanks I appreciate the reassurance. I have a tendency to come across harsh/abrasive/whatever so I do try my best to word things as non-jerkish as possible... Even if I am a little upset about this whole thing.

The person I emailed it to (which I actually ended up pretexting the email with something along the lines: "I don't know if this is the right person to send this to.... but") got in touch with me yesterday to get clarification on what my issue was, stated that they indeed were not the ones to handle it, they are just the middle man, and would attempt to find out who this needed to get forwarded on to in order to resolve my issue.

So now I get to play the run around game until I find out who this specifically needs to be addressed to... This is what happens when your organization is just a tenant of the building, I suppose, and I will just have to keep pressing until it gets to the right person.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Basically the only field on that page that is 100% accurate is the name of the car. :biggrin:

Well, I can accept a lot the stuff is mis-displaying values. For example the "3 MPG" is actually a mis-display of a rounded 3mi/kWh. But "small wagon" is just insane. The Model S is somewhere between a Prius v and Jetta wagon for cargo space.

Misclassifying the Model S as a small wagon could be the source of a lower score.

 

[Red Sage]

The EPA calls the Model S a 'Large' car...

 

[KenN]

drinking far too much EV Haterade.

Love it! Thanks for the new addition to my vocabulary!

 

[chickensevil]

Been quite a while since I provided an update... I guess this is mostly because I have all but given up trying to explain to low level people how to do their jobs and RTFM... And I never seemed to get contacts high enough to the right people who could actually fix the issue. I think a lot of this came down to me not being willing to be persistent/annoying enough to them that they fix it as I already have parking in the building through other means and was just fighting this out of principle.

That said, Greenercars.org has *FINALLY* come around on their 2015 list and included Tesla!

Here is their 2015 stat:
Year| GBClass| Make| Model| M/M/Specs| EmisStd| City| Hiwy| Green Score
2015 | 04_WGS| TESLA | MODEL S 60 kWh | Electric (Li-ion bat.) | ZEV / Bin 1 | 2.80 | 2.87 | 47
2015 | 04_WGS | TESLA | MODEL S 85 kWh | Electric (Li-ion bat.) | ZEV / Bin 1 | 2.61 | 2.68 | 46
Of course no distinction between Performance and Standard... No 70D... No Dual Motor at all... *sigh*

Oh and of course the other years are still not there... which means, I bet if I were to try to reapply the stupid people in the parking office would say mine is a 2014 and therefore didn't qualify, even though there is no material difference between an S85 made today and an S85 made in 2014 as far as "greenness" is concerned... but whatever... at least new owners, hopefully, can get a pass.

 

[MsElectric]

Been quite a while since I provided an update... I guess this is mostly because I have all but given up trying to explain to low level people how to do their jobs and RTFM... And I never seemed to get contacts high enough to the right people who could actually fix the issue. I think a lot of this came down to me not being willing to be persistent/annoying enough to them that they fix it as I already have parking in the building through other means and was just fighting this out of principle.

That said, Greenercars.org has *FINALLY* come around on their 2015 list and included Tesla!

Here is their 2015 stat:
Year| GBClass| Make| Model| M/M/Specs| EmisStd| City| Hiwy| Green Score
2015 | 04_WGS| TESLA | MODEL S 60 kWh | Electric (Li-ion bat.) | ZEV / Bin 1 | 2.80 | 2.87 | 47
2015 | 04_WGS | TESLA | MODEL S 85 kWh | Electric (Li-ion bat.) | ZEV / Bin 1 | 2.61 | 2.68 | 46
Of course no distinction between Performance and Standard... No 70D... No Dual Motor at all... *sigh*

Oh and of course the other years are still not there... which means, I bet if I were to try to reapply the stupid people in the parking office would say mine is a 2014 and therefore didn't qualify, even though there is no material difference between an S85 made today and an S85 made in 2014 as far as "greenness" is concerned... but whatever... at least new owners, hopefully, can get a pass.

Just tell the parking people your Model S is the one on the list. I doubt they'd really want to see your window sticker from the car.

Since this nonsense is some LEED requirement I would start calling LEED about what a miserable job this "non profit"is doing ranking the Model S.

 

[Haggy]

Just tell the parking people your Model S is the one on the list. I doubt they'd really want to see your window sticker from the car.

It's a moot point as far as the OP goes, and nobody could tell if it's a 2014 or 2015 by looking at it. Unfortunately, mine is called a 2014 even though it has the 2015 features, reviewers called it a 2015, and all other car companies were selling 2015 cars when Tesla came out with the autopilot and D. I ever wanted to sell the car, I'd have a hard time convincing some people. But as people here know, it's the same car.

 

[chickensevil]

It's a moot point as far as the OP goes, and nobody could tell if it's a 2014 or 2015 by looking at it. Unfortunately, mine is called a 2014 even though it has the 2015 features, reviewers called it a 2015, and all other car companies were selling 2015 cars when Tesla came out with the autopilot and D. I ever wanted to sell the car, I'd have a hard time convincing some people. But as people here know, it's the same car.

I think this is why Tesla set up their website for CPO the way they did by listing the ending of the VIN number. This let's people know what they are getting built-in feature wise without having to spell it out.

I think in your case, when you sell the car, it will be just telling people it has the Auto-pilot stuff and it won't matter otherwise. Now as for greenercars.org... yeah, they think you have a terribly inefficient car, because you have "2014" on your window sticker. (Seriously, if I am not mistaken they rate the Model S, before the 2015 posting) as like a 38 or some such, which means you can't get LEED Green Vehicle Parking... I don't know how in the world a date on the car makes it more efficient... but apparently it does).

 

[Gizmotoy]

At least the ratings are slightly less dumb than they used to be. Faint praise, to be sure.

 

[dandelot]

I had not heard of greenercars.org so I took a look today.
For 2015 Tesla *is not listed at all* AFAICT.

Somebody at that .org has an axe to grind.

- - - Updated - - -

greenercars.org, took another look. A hybrid is shown at 44 mpg. Tesla rated at 2.61 mpg if you go to the 'greenercars ratings' and search
for Tesla. A natural gas car rated 27 mpg. Fiat 500e rated under 4mpg. This website is deranged.
Reading it one feels a bit like K. in Kafka's "The Castle".

 

[chickensevil]

I had not heard of greenercars.org so I took a look today.
For 2015 Tesla *is not listed at all* AFAICT.

Somebody at that .org has an axe to grind.

- - - Updated - - -

greenercars.org, took another look. A hybrid is shown at 44 mpg. Tesla rated at 2.61 mpg if you go to the 'greenercars ratings' and search
for Tesla. A natural gas car rated 27 mpg. Fiat 500e rated under 4mpg. This website is deranged.
Reading it one feels a bit like K. in Kafka's "The Castle".

I think it is actually supposed to be mi/kWh or some such. Not an MPG rating. Could be wrong... Either way, you would only care and discover this site if you work in a LEED certified building.

 

[Shawn Snider]

Wow............. Just.... Wow........

http://greenercars.org/greenercars-...ranking_tid[]=52&field_class_ranking_tid[]=53

All the Model S listings, How did they get the '2.8 MPG City' '2.87 MPG Highway'??? going full retard and looking in the mirror?

 

[GaryREM]

Wow............. Just.... Wow........

http://greenercars.org/greenercars-...ranking_tid[]=52&field_class_ranking_tid[]=53

All the Model S listings, How did they get the '2.8 MPG City' '2.87 MPG Highway'??? going full retard and looking in the mirror?

As chickensevil explained, the mpg column for EVs is miles per kwh.

On that basis, the numbers make sense. Unfortunately, this 'fact' is not easy to find.

 

[KenN]

Scroll down that page to the notes at the bottom. It's quite clearly stated;

Battery-Electric Vehicle Fuel Economy: Fuel economy for pure battery-electric vehicles is provided in miles per kilowatt-hour.

 

[jerry33]

Scroll down that page to the notes at the bottom. It's quite clearly stated;

I wonder how many people actually scroll down?

And isn't 2.8 a bit low? Shouldn't it be more like 3.5 to 4 mi/kWh?

 

[Hodginator]

Yes their estimate seems a bit high on energy usage. I believe that's about 357Wh per mile which I only get in the dead of winter and heavy on the accelerator.

 

[yobigd20]

Yes their estimate seems a bit high on energy usage. I believe that's about 357Wh per mile which I only get in the dead of winter and heavy on the accelerator.

Heh my avg after 68k miles is 374 so I'd say that's pretty close to accurate.

 

[oneday]

This is an interesting article for them about why Tesla doesn't score in the top ten.
BMW i3 Achieves New Green Score High (But Where’s Tesla?) | Greener Cars

It's really hard for me to believe that any vehicle that caries around an engine, with all those moveable/wearable parts and requiring frequent oil changes burning substances that must be extracted from deep under ground and shipped around the world resulting in millions of barrels of spills and then must be refined and then driven to the million gas stations could ever rank higher than a Tesla blows my mind.

 

[brianman]

BMW i3 Achieves New Green Score High (But Where’s Tesla?) | Greener Cars

The Tesla Model S 65kW model (which scores in the 90th percentile but doesn’t appear on the Greenest list) weighs 5,000 pounds (test weight) and is heavier than most other electric vehicles on the market.

I can forgive the, um, "rounding up" of the weight from 4,600 to 5,000. But describing a "65 kW model" which doesn't exist because (A) the units are wrong (any Model S delivering kW max feels worse than the slowest ICE I've ever driven) and (B) there is no 65 kWh Tesla vehicle of any kind. If you can get these basics right, nothing else in your rating methodology -- which necessarily must deal with numeric values and units -- will hold my interest.

 

[Ben W]

I can forgive the, um, "rounding up" of the weight from 4,600 to 5,000. But describing a "65 kW model" which doesn't exist because (A) the units are wrong (any Model S delivering kW max feels worse than the slowest ICE I've ever driven) and (B) there is no 65 kWh Tesla vehicle of any kind. If you can get these basics right, nothing else in your rating methodology -- which necessarily must deal with numeric values and units -- will hold my interest.

Their methodology is whacked. I suspect that they may not be amortizing the manufacturing-related emissions over the vehicle’s entire lifetime, but rather over just one year. Otherwise I can’t see how they come up with these numbers. The fact that they inexplicably list both the 60kWh and 85kWh models at the same inaccurate (5000lb) curb weight, whereas in reality the 60kWh model is 200lbs lighter than 85kWh, is further evidence that they’re just making stuff up. I say we sic Elon on this. After what he did to Broder, I’d love to see his takedown of these guys.