Grid outage as trigger

[Gwgan]

Is there such a thing as a single smart circuit breaker I could put into my standard US breaker panel to automatically control one circuit based on grid status?
I have one large constant load that I need to turn off when the grid goes down so as to not drain the Powerwalls too quickly. Easy to do when I’m home and not sleeping but want to make it happen automatically.

 

[BGbreeder]

There are a variety of control mechanisms, suitable for large loads, but I am unaware of a circuit breaker that can sense a different circuit, and open.

 

[aesculus]

I am down to one load like this, the hot tub. In the summer it's on occasional pumping with no heating so it's not really a big load. In the winter it could bury my useful load in my PWs quickly since I run at a 50% reserve. IF I go anywhere overnight I should probably turn it off and just deal with the heating catch up later.

But having a breaker like this would be great. My other issue is that while there is a lead in the Gateway to detect grid state, that device is more than a hundred feet away from the hot tub and breaker with no means to integrate the too. That has kept me from pursuing an automated solution.

 

[arnolddeleon]

You are going to need to do some amount of automation/integration unless you have a load center from SPAN. Leviton makes "smart" breakers for their load center but quite likely you still have to integrate a trigger to indicate the grid is down.

The number of options you have to solve the problem grow dramatically if you remove the restriction that it has to be a breaker. Could you install a contactor (relay) at the device in question? Here is an example: UL Certified Relays - Shelly USA If your load is small enough the device can even control things directly. Then it's just a matter of having a control system for it. You can use HomeAssistant to shutdown the device when grid goes down. I also believe there are contacts on the gateways that close or open if grid goes down so you can use that to control a Shelly directly.

 

[Vines]

Is there such a thing as a single smart circuit breaker I could put into my standard US breaker panel to automatically control one circuit based on grid status?
I have one large constant load that I need to turn off when the grid goes down so as to not drain the Powerwalls too quickly. Easy to do when I’m home and not sleeping but want to make it happen automatically.

If you are handy with electricity, then you could implement the following solution:

Use a normally open contactor, that is energized by the grid on the non-backup side. Whenever the grid goes down, this contactor will return to it's normally open position. Here's a 60A version but you can certainly find them cheaper. Also this one requires a new enclosure. https://www.grainger.com/product/5B...IHM6lBvxezAtVirHwaBoCatUQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

The other option with a TEG is to use the load shedding pins and to use a similar contactor but one based on DC control voltage designed for HVAC load shedding. That is a normally closed DC circuit, that opens when off grid. You can use this DC control circuit to activate a similar relay as what was posted above.

An alternative would be to use a shunt trip breaker and a lower amperage relay, but that would require manually turning back on at the tripped breaker. The other 2 solutions above are probably better

A final option would be to create your own program to interact with the Tesla API or manually use a wifi breaker to remotely disconnect the load. Unless you have a Leviton panel, this breaker will probably be expensive as this tech is just now being released. https://www.frommelectric.com/2819575/p/n/eaton-brem2050

 

[Gwgan]

Use a normally open contactor, that is energized by the grid on the non-backup side.

I have a whole-house-backup situation This would be easy if the offending load was on a non-backup circuit but unfortunately that is not practically possible.

 

[D.E.]

Is there such a thing as a single smart circuit breaker I could put into my standard US breaker panel to automatically control one circuit based on grid status?
I have one large constant load that I need to turn off when the grid goes down so as to not drain the Powerwalls too quickly. Easy to do when I’m home and not sleeping but want to make it happen automatically.

I don’t know of one but it should be fairly easy to make something. You might start with an electromagnet that keeps something plugged in, and a spring unit that unplugs. As long as there’s power, the magnet keeps the unit plugged in, with a power outage, the magnet lets go and the unit gets unplugged. There are electromagnets that keep doors closed/locked. They’re available on eBay. They don’t draw much current but they do provide a lot of magnetic clamping power.

There will be a lot of solutions, this is just one. There’s a system based on an Arduino board that would let you create a system, you could have power flowing only when there’s power.

Look for an existing system that disconnects with a power failure. If you can’t find anything, you can certainly make something.

 

[h2ofun]

If this were done, I sure would want it with a permit. If for some reason it failed, and no permit, then insurance would probably not cover damage.

 

[D.E.]

Is there such a thing as a single smart circuit breaker I could put into my standard US breaker panel to automatically control one circuit based on grid status?
I have one large constant load that I need to turn off when the grid goes down so as to not drain the Powerwalls too quickly. Easy to do when I’m home and not sleeping but want to make it happen automatically.

Did you want it to automatically resume supplying power when the grid comes back up?

 

[arnolddeleon]

I have a whole-house-backup situation This would be easy if the offending load was on a non-backup circuit but unfortunately that is not practically possible.

In addition to the contacts @Vines identified the HomeAssistant Powerwall integration uses the local API: Tesla Powerwall

Your solutions will either be driven by the contacts on the TEG or something "knows" that the grid is down. The second half is going to either be some device that interrupts the power (relay/contactor) that can be "directed" to cut the power or something that can actuate the power switch on the device (assuming it has one).

If you tell us more about that load then perhaps folks can make more specific suggestions. Grow lights? Pool pump? Air exchanger? Spa? HVAC? Humidifier?

There is also option of just living with it. You already said that is easy for you to turn it off if you are home. If you are not home or asleep does it matter that the Powerwall "empties"? Once you get home or wake up you can "recover" assuming you have solar. I was originally worried about my car charging doing this (before Tesla added smart charging) and I ended up deciding to not worry about it.

 

[Gwgan]

Does not have to be a breaker. It does not even have to be instantaneous. This electric AGA cooker is the one appliance on one circuit. 240V rated at 11.5A but I think it draws more like 12-13. The Shelly sounds like it could work as long as I could get a signal to the API. The Shelly would be at the breaker panel since the AGA is hardwired.

It does not need to automatically turn back on.

 

[Gwgan]

n addition to the contacts @Vines identified the HomeAssistant Powerwall integration uses the local API: Tesla Powerwall

This could work with the Shelly, but I’d be starting from zero to get a r-pi device running. Documentation looks easy to follow.

 

[MJ_CA_2019]

I have this and have it configured to have certain breakers unpowered during grid outage.
They turn back on when grid power is detected.

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[JSNH1919]

Depends on your gateway. If you have gateway 2 it is super easy to add a non backed up subpanel for the hot tub. A gateway 1 it is a bit different to add one.

 

[GWord]

Push the breaker with a Switchbot and homebridge?

https://www.amazon.com/SwitchBot-Smart-Switch-Button-Pusher/dp/B07B4D9KVX

 

[ucmndd]

Depends on your gateway. If you have gateway 2 it is super easy to add a non backed up subpanel for the hot tub.

This is my solution, using the small internal panel in the GW2 for non backed up loads (hot tub and a non-Tesla EVSE).

 

[CrazyRabbit]

What is on said circuit?

 

[Vines]

At the Intersolar show I saw a product I hadn't seen before:
Companion Modules - Savant

They make a relay that fits in your breaker panel and is designed to respond to various commands including grid outages or app based control. According to them it would cost about $800-1000 for the hardware to start controlling things and your first relay.

It has various backplates to fit in either a Siemens, Square D Homeline or QO, Eaton and other panelboards. You wire the output of your load to this relay and control module, and then to the actual load.

Not sure of the practical details but it made me think of this problem. Unfortunately, unlike SPAN they cannot interface with the powerwall datastream. They are able to with other home energy products.

 

[dafish]

Do you have a trigger that either Google or Alexa can recognize as an "Grid Down" event? An alarm from your solar panels perhaps?

Is so take (2) 120V 15 amp smart plugs and goto work.

 

[cwied]

Do you have a trigger that either Google or Alexa can recognize as an "Grid Down" event? An alarm from your solar panels perhaps?

Is so take (2) 120V 15 amp smart plugs and goto work.

FWIW, Home Assistant has a Tesla Powerwall integration that includes a grid status binary sensor that can be used to trigger other devices such as smart plugs.
The drawback with a software-only approach is it is a little more fragile as I found out yesterday when some kind of glitch (maybe power fluctuation) made one of my network switches flip out and trigger an erroneous grid-down event.