Help Me Decide Between Long Range and Performance

[BetterSlowDown]

I haven't read the whole thread and I'm sure somebody has mentioned this before - get the stealth. Best of both worlds and that's exactly why they made it. As quick as performance, full track mode etc, but with all the practicality, range, comfort, and all-season-ability of the LR. They are super rare through compared to LR and Performance... I searched for months before finding one last April. If you can't find one, get the performance and get rid of the goofy factory tires and wheels that model gets.

 

[NinjaFoot]

I haven't read the whole thread and I'm sure somebody has mentioned this before - get the stealth. Best of both worlds and that's exactly why they made it. As quick as performance, full track mode etc, but with all the practicality, range, comfort, and all-season-ability of the LR. They are super rare through compared to LR and Performance... I searched for months before finding one last April. If you can't find one, get the performance and get rid of the goofy factory tires and wheels that model gets.

I have been seeing people mention "stealth" version. What exactly stealth model 3 is?

 

[NinjaFoot]

I was at the same cross roads. Was debating to either get LR with boost or P. Got the P. I didn’t want to keep thinking “what if”. I’m so happy I did. If your finances permit, I would go for the P and never look back.

I’m not anal about range. I drive it as like any other car. Well, not really. I’m having too much fun overtaking mustangs, Camaros etc. but I don’t care how much range I “destroy” when I floor it. My daily drive to work is 75 miles round trip. I just get home, plug it into Tesla wall charger and couple hours later I have a “full tank of gas” again. Combine that with solar panels on my roof, I get free charge every day.

I know for sure "what if's" are gonna kill me. I ordered LR but I know I can just change it by calling SA. However now I am getting more stingy about money. $8k difference ($10k-$2k AB for LR) started looking more big of a deal now lol. I know I need another set of wheels and tires for either model so I am not counting that against model 3 performance. But I might lower LR so that's like what ~$1K with parts and labor?

I guess I am gonna have to settle beating non-hellcat chargers and challangers lol.

It is also been mentioned performance version holds its value better. Can anyone give little bit more input on that?

 

[NinjaFoot]

And... if you get the performance boost, your insurance agent will never know.

Mike

When I was getting a quote from progressive and geico, they didn't have different trim selections for Model 3. It was just model 3 and there wasn't any way to quote for specific trim like either performance or long range.

Is this normal? or it might change based on VIN?

 

[NinjaFoot]

Sounds like the question I was asking myself when I selected a wife long ago. I could have chosen "performance" or "long range".
Bottom line, agree answers above. Just an individual choice and different for most everyone.

I got the "long range" wife but I wouldn't be lying if I say if I could go back in time I would definitely choose the "performance" one lol.

 

[NinjaFoot]

Maybe it's early in ownership for me but I find that 1/3 throttle is enough to make me shake my head in disbelief so I rarely floor it. A couple weeks ago a kid pulled up next to me first at a light in a Mazda 3 with a fart can muffler. I looked over and he and his GF were eyeballing my car and smiling. The light turned green and I heard the telltale flatulence from his car so I barely touched the throttle to stay side-by-side for about 2 seconds. Then I just pressed it about 1/3 throttle and he instantly disappeared in my rearview like he hit a wall. I stopped accelerating at the speed limit (50) and I could see him stick his arm out the window with a thumbs up. If he only knew... I was at 1/3 throttle.

Mike

Do you have LR with AB?

 

[NinjaFoot]

Well... the good thing is you mentioned you want to use your stock set up as dedicated winters. So the range will be consistent whether you're in a performance or non-performance for that matter.

Those bronze Titan 7 on the demo car is 19x9 +35 on 255/40/19 Michelin PS4S tires. That car is lowered.
I just placed an order for a client on this exact set up, I'll post some more photos soon.

Danny

I can't wait to see it. Please keep me posted!

 

[MikeyC]

Do you have LR with AB?

Yes. I got the acceleration boost on like day 3 of ownership.

Mike

 

[Knightshade]

When I was getting a quote from progressive and geico, they didn't have different trim selections for Model 3. It was just model 3 and there wasn't any way to quote for specific trim like either performance or long range.

Is this normal? or it might change based on VIN?

In 2018 and 2019 all AWD versions, both LR and P, had the same VIN code.

As of 2020 P has its own.

I have been seeing people mention "stealth" version. What exactly stealth model 3 is?

So back in 2018 when the P was first available the base model was exactly the same HW as a LR AWD, and there was a software unlock to give the P performance.

That (they're the same HW) remained true through some of 2019, but eventually the LR AWD rear motor was swapped for a less capable one during 2019.


Anyway back in 2018 if you ordered a P, you had the OPTION to add the Performance Upgrade Package for $5000 more- THAT is what gave you the spoiler, slightly different springs/shocks, and 20" wheels.

The easy shorthand for this was P3D+ and P3D-, indicating Ps that were + or - that Performance Upgrade Package.

But some P3D- owners disliked having a - associated with their car name, so instead use the longer to type "stealth" designation for the car.


Anyway, later in 2018 Tesla made the PuP standard on the P.... it became the only version you could get.... (and did so without raising the price). Anybody who had already bought one before that got the option for a $5000 refund, if they were willing to give up the lifetime supercharging that also came with the P originally.

So for a while, you couldn't get a P3D- at all.... then a couple of times in 2019 batches up them just magically appeared in inventory, at only a small ($2000) markup to the LR AWD.

Nobody ever explained why officially, but some folks were able to get those. On the website only the P3D+ continued to exist for ordering.


Then late 2019 AB comes along a little bit after the last unexplained inventory batch of P3D- cars had shipped... and after that you the P3D- was suddenly available to order on the website again.... but at full P price. You could add or remove the PuP, your choice, but the car didn't get cheaper if you removed it.

Then a few months after, that choice went away and we're back to you can only order a P3D+

I dunno if inventory - cars ever showed up again after or at what price.

 

[Phlier]

Knightshade has summarized the whole saga of the P3D- “Stealth” far better than I could have, and I own one (see sig).

I’m planning on keeping mine long term, as it was exactly what I was looking for at the time. Even though there have been a few upgrades I’d like to have such as double pane windows, heat pump, auto trunk, heated steering wheel and a few other Knick knacks, it’s going to take a lot more than that to pry my fingers off the wheel of my car.

My car has very little mileage on it and is in darn near showroom condition. Yet even if someone offered me what I originally paid I wouldn’t sell it. Yeah, we like it that much.

With how popular the car was/is, I’m very surprised that Elon and company discontinued it. Maybe someday it will return.

 

[NinjaFoot]

In 2018 and 2019 all AWD versions, both LR and P, had the same VIN code.

As of 2020 P has its own.





So back in 2018 when the P was first available the base model was exactly the same HW as a LR AWD, and there was a software unlock to give the P performance.

That (they're the same HW) remained true through some of 2019, but eventually the LR AWD rear motor was swapped for a less capable one during 2019.


Anyway back in 2018 if you ordered a P, you had the OPTION to add the Performance Upgrade Package for $5000 more- THAT is what gave you the spoiler, slightly different springs/shocks, and 20" wheels.

The easy shorthand for this was P3D+ and P3D-, indicating Ps that were + or - that Performance Upgrade Package.

But some P3D- owners disliked having a - associated with their car name, so instead use the longer to type "stealth" designation for the car.


Anyway, later in 2018 Tesla made the PuP standard on the P.... it became the only version you could get.... (and did so without raising the price). Anybody who had already bought one before that got the option for a $5000 refund, if they were willing to give up the lifetime supercharging that also came with the P originally.

So for a while, you couldn't get a P3D- at all.... then a couple of times in 2019 batches up them just magically appeared in inventory, at only a small ($2000) markup to the LR AWD.

Nobody ever explained why officially, but some folks were able to get those. On the website only the P3D+ continued to exist for ordering.


Then late 2019 AB comes along a little bit after the last unexplained inventory batch of P3D- cars had shipped... and after that you the P3D- was suddenly available to order on the website again.... but at full P price. You could add or remove the PuP, your choice, but the car didn't get cheaper if you removed it.

Then a few months after, that choice went away and we're back to you can only order a P3D+

I dunno if inventory - cars ever showed up again after or at what price.

Well that was really confusing to read lol. So it is performance acceleration without bigger brakes and track mode basically?

 

[BetterSlowDown]

Thanks @Knightshade , good stealth explanation and nice recap of the history! I think the stealth moniker came about from the fact that it's just a factory sleeper and a "wolf in sheep's clothing", and due to the fact that they are the most rare 3 variant ever produced. (I've completely debadged not just the underlined "dual motor" but the Tesla T's as well, leaving a blank deck with just my "wolf in sheep's clothing decal on the back, yeah dorky, I know). You suggested stealth came about as a result of not liking the "-"... beats me... I've never heard of someone having an issue with that but you've been in the community longer than me.

My last two performance cars were a GT500 and a AMG GLA45, so tons of extra plastic bits, insignias, emblems, factory painted rotors, factory lowered, factory louder exhausts, etc... I just grew so tired of all the glitz and glam and when I first heard of the stealth I know it was the subtle-ness I wanted after those last two flashy raucous cars.

There is a local with a red stealth Model Y... I really want to find one of those for my wife sometime in the next year or so!

 

[Phlier]

@Knightshade FWIW, I thought I'd share a conversation I had with my insurance company (USAA) when I went to add my car to my policy.

I started to attempt to explain how my car wasn't a full performance, but would like it to be insured as if it *was* a full Performance, and if I'd need to get some sort of rider to the policy. The lady plugged my VIN into their system, and she said that it came up as a "Model 3 Performance." This was on a July, 2019 manufactured car.

Since this conversation, I had assumed that "Stealth" and full Performance cars of that year did carry a VIN identifying them as Performance vehicles.

Now I've come to learn that if there's a guy on this forum that knows his stuff, it's you... I just thought I'd share a conversation, FWIW (probably nothing).

 

[Knightshade]

Well that was really confusing to read lol. So it is performance acceleration without bigger brakes and track mode basically?

No brakes, but it DOES get track mode, since that's just software.

In theory if you had full access as Tesla does, and you had an LR AWD with the 980 rear motor (all of 2018, some of 2019) you can do a 5 minute software flash and it would 100% be a P3D-

A few folks had this happen in 2018 when they went to pick up the P they ordered and noticed it didn't have the red underline- delivery center took it to service, they updated the SW, and it was a P.

@Knightshade FWIW, I thought I'd share a conversation I had with my insurance company (USAA) when I went to add my car to my policy.

I started to attempt to explain how my car wasn't a full performance, but would like it to be insured as if it *was* a full Performance, and if I'd need to get some sort of rider to the policy. The lady plugged my VIN into their system, and she said that it came up as a "Model 3 Performance." This was on a July, 2019 manufactured car.

Since this conversation, I had assumed that "Stealth" and full Performance cars of that year did carry a VIN identifying them as Performance vehicles.

Now I've come to learn that if there's a guy on this forum that knows his stuff, it's you... I just thought I'd share a conversation, FWIW (probably nothing).

It's possible some states get more detailed info from the MFG when the car is registered and they got it that way.

But you can look up the VIN filings yourself with NHTSA- the motor code for P was the same as AWD for 2018 and 2019... as of 2020 it changed to...actually, here I've got the link:

https://vpic.nhtsa.dot.gov/mid/home/displayfile/54414e8c-d20d-4011-8158-48838c122a87

A = Single Motor – Standard / Performance (Designated for Model 3)
B = Dual Motor – Standard (Designated for Model 3)
C = Dual Motor – Performance (Designated for Model 3


8th digit... C is a P, B is LR AWD, A is all the RWD both SR and LR (not that they make RWD LR anymore)


Prior to 2020 it was A/B only.


Here's the 2019 version-

https://vpic.nhtsa.dot.gov/mid/home/displayfile/08d92abf-3aeb-45ba-ba92-b5ad54b06ff5

A= Single Motor – Standard / Performance (Designated for Model 3)
B = Dual Motor – Standard / Performance (Designated for Model 3)

No C yet... LR AWD and P both got a B in the 8th slot.

 

[holmgang]

Today I test drove a model 3 long range because they didn't have a performance version at the store. I liked everything about that long range version. Ride, handling, features etc. But I wasn't really sold on it. Coming from a 455hp car with 0-60 4sec it just didn't feel any faster than my camaro. However this is all based off my butt dyno.

1. Battery car performance depends on state of charge and battery warmth.

2. Difference between Performance vs Long Range is delivered <40mph or so. Above that, it's very similar.

3. Camaro has all its ~400-450hp power at multiple road speeds due to multi-gearing and the power across a rev range. Tesla has its 350-500hp delivered down low (<40mph) and gradually tapers with speed because of single-gear. At highway speeds, it accelerates like a ~300hp car or thereabouts. (I dont remember exact dyno curve).

4. The Camaro will also have shift shocks and loud noises which exhances the perception of performance.

 

[MikeyC]

3. Camaro has all its ~400-450hp power at multiple road speeds due to multi-gearing and the power across a rev range. Tesla has its 350-500hp delivered down low (<40mph) and gradually tapers with speed because of single-gear. At highway speeds, it accelerates like a ~300hp car or thereabouts. (I dont remember exact dyno curve).

Camaro has the same problem for a different reason: it can't deliver the same torque to the wheels at those different speeds in different gears because each time you upshift, you divide the torque going to the wheels. So while an EV will lose torque due to back EMF, an ICE loses torque because you have to keep changing the final drive ratio due to a much lower max RPM. At any highway speeds I'm aware of, a good electric motor will be putting more torque to the ground than an ICE with a similar power rating. You have to go over 100 MPH for gear changes to make more sense than running up the RPM on an electric motor.

Mike

 

[Xambler]

Knightshade has summarized the whole saga of the P3D- “Stealth” far better than I could have, and I own one (see sig).

I’m planning on keeping mine long term, as it was exactly what I was looking for at the time. Even though there have been a few upgrades I’d like to have such as double pane windows, heat pump, auto trunk, heated steering wheel and a few other Knick knacks, it’s going to take a lot more than that to pry my fingers off the wheel of my car.

My car has very little mileage on it and is in darn near showroom condition. Yet even if someone offered me what I originally paid I wouldn’t sell it. Yeah, we like it that much.

With how popular the car was/is, I’m very surprised that Elon and company discontinued it. Maybe someday it will return.

Agreed...nothing is going to pry my stealth away . Actually, in December 2019 minutes after our first test drive of a LR awd model 3 we were picking out colors (wife wanted red) and sales guy was looking for a red Tesla in the upcoming builds (we wanted it before end of year for the tax incentive) and he said there was a red sleeper being built that hadn’t been purchased yet. After he explained what a sleeper was (ie a stealth performance) I jumped at the $2k option price. 16k miles now (just pulled in from a 700 mile drive today...13 hrs because an accident outside of Atlanta shut down all 3 lanes but relaxing trip anyway...navigate on autopilot the whole way). Tires maybe have 2k miles left...and no, I don’t use the track mode...yet.

 

[holmgang]

Camaro has the same problem for a different reason: it can't deliver the same torque to the wheels at those different speeds in different gears because each time you upshift, you divide the torque going to the wheels. So while an EV will lose torque due to back EMF, an ICE loses torque because you have to keep changing the final drive ratio due to a much lower max RPM. At any highway speeds I'm aware of, a good electric motor will be putting more torque to the ground than an ICE with a similar power rating. You have to go over 100 MPH for gear changes to make more sense than running up the RPM on an electric motor.

Mike

An electric MAY have higher torque output at the wheel at *a* reference speed -- say 50mph -- but by staying fixed on that shorter ratio, it'll burn through the RPM curve more quickly and into the EMF-induced torque drop off.

Modern transmissions are 6sp+, and in the Camaro they are available in 8- and 10- (!!!) speeds to minimize ratio decrease and optimize sampling of RPM curve.

Ultimately, the power curve tells the tale.

100-200kph i.e. 62mph-120mph, pretty much any 400hp car will beat the Model 3 Performance: M340i, Mustang V8, E92 M3, RS4, M2, A45, 718 Spyder/GT4, etc

 

[Knightshade]

FWIW- from 0-~120 mph (roughly what the P traps in the 1/4 mile) none of them beat a P

Heck I don't think any will even beat a LR AWD+ (with boost).

Those are all 12.something second cars AFAIK, both Teslas run in the 11s.

(disclaimer- for the Mustang I'm going with the "normal" V8... the can-be-optioned-to-$100,000 newer GT500 will indeed crush any Model 3 in the 1/4)

 

[Apprunner]

An electric MAY have higher torque output at the wheel at *a* reference speed -- say 50mph -- but by staying fixed on that shorter ratio, it'll burn through the RPM curve more quickly and into the EMF-induced torque drop off.

Modern transmissions are 6sp+, and in the Camaro they are available in 8- and 10- (!!!) speeds to minimize ratio decrease and optimize sampling of RPM curve.

Ultimately, the power curve tells the tale.

100-200kph i.e. 62mph-120mph, pretty much any 400hp car will beat the Model 3 Performance: M340i, Mustang V8, E92 M3, RS4, M2, A45, 718 Spyder/GT4, etc

At a 60mph roll, the Performance will walk most of those cars until about 115mph. Tons of YouTube videos that confirm this from CarWow and other sources.