Oh, I also forgot to include the potential incentives/kickbacks from the electric utility, which reduces the up front price even further (but I don't know those numbers)
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Help me understand a SolarCity proposal w/r/t Model S charging
- Thread starter HankLloydRight
- Start date
tliving
Member
A couple of things, quickly - first, my tax preparer (Enrolled Agent) refused to take the federal income tax credit based on the installed price, so be careful if you're subject to rebates (in your case, using the installed price is probably good because it wasn't a rebate but rather a state credit). My 9 kW system price of $35k received a manufacturer rebate of ~$1,200 and IL rebate of ~$8,900. Instead, the tax credit is on the basis - so 30% of ~$24,900 instead of 30% of $35k. That's a gotcha, and even my own solar company pitched the credit on the full price but warned you in footnotes that some preparers interpret the code differently. My preparer believes the IRS will consider only your out-of-pocket basis if you receive any rebates. Of course, you can claim anything you want, it's just if you get audited that makes a difference.
As for SRECs, the market varies widely. In IL, SRECs are pretty much worthless. There is a company (Skyview Ventures) offering $8/SREC for a 4-year term, with really odd/lopsided terms (e.g., they don't provide any upfront consideration, yet claim a forward-looking damages right if you don't maintain your system because they claim entitlement to future revenue streams from your system). I wasn't willing to sign such a lopsided 4-year commitment, and the company didn't want to work with me on more reasonable legal terms. There have been a couple of programs by which others will purchase (Naperville had one program where they would purchase up to 150 SRECs at $105 ea. last year, but with so many SRECs being produced it became a lottery). Bottom line is that my SRECs are going unused.
I went back and looked at the installer's model. It's a PDF, so I can't dig through the spreadsheet formulas, but it looks like they are figuring the tax credits (Fed and MA) on the net amount after the utility rebate, which is 0 in my case (I'm on a municipal electric company, so they can do whatever they want for rebates and net metering). I don't know if the Federal tax credit is taken on the price before or after the MA income tax credit (but that's capped at $1000, so it has minimal impact).A couple of things, quickly - first, my tax preparer (Enrolled Agent) refused to take the federal income tax credit based on the installed price, so be careful if you're subject to rebates (in your case, using the installed price is probably good because it wasn't a rebate but rather a state credit). My 9 kW system price of $35k received a manufacturer rebate of ~$1,200 and IL rebate of ~$8,900. Instead, the tax credit is on the basis - so 30% of ~$24,900 instead of 30% of $35k. That's a gotcha, and even my own solar company pitched the credit on the full price but warned you in footnotes that some preparers interpret the code differently. My preparer believes the IRS will consider only your out-of-pocket basis if you receive any rebates. Of course, you can claim anything you want, it's just if you get audited that makes a difference.
Yes, I should have pointed out that my SREC numbers were for MA only, and aren't really guaranteed, anyway. I don't purport to know a thing about the SREC markets in other states.
Last month, between electricity savings and estimated SREC income, I saw a ~20% annualized ROI on the net cost of the system (post tax credits). This was the first month the system was live, so I don't know if this is sustainable. I have also been told that spring has the peak production days (at least in MA). In winter the days are too short/sun is too low/risk of snow cover. In summer, the higher ambient heat supposedly limits peak output of the micro inverters, offsetting the longer days.
My original point was that tliving might want to solicit another quote or two - I'm still not convinced the SolarCity PPA proposal documented in the blog was the best deal available, especially given MA's strong incentives.
Ok, so please help me out again, just trying to figure this out.
SolarCity has proposed the following for my house:
4,170 DC KW
3,640 AC KW
4,340 KWh/Year Estimate production
361 KWh/Month
At 120 volts, I think this translates to about 30 amps of power available on average (3.64KW/120volts=30.33Amps).
At 240 volts, I think this translates to about 15 amps of power available on average (3.64KW/120volts=15.16Amps).
Now looking at my actual grid usage for the last 12 months, I consumed 6,430 KwH over 364 days, 535 KWh/month, or 17.66 KwH per day (average).
If I take 17.66 Kwh per day, that's seems like 736 AC Watts draw for 24 hours.. . At 120 volts, I think that's an average of a 6.13 Amp draw.
During the hottest months, my usage went up to 30kwh per day, or about 1,300 watts or an average 10 amps draw (which makes sense, since my A/C unit is rated at a 10 amp draw, but doesn't run all the time during the summer). Heat is not electric.
Am I good so far? So it looks like the solar will cover about 2/3 of my power needs over the course of a year (this jives with the SolarCity estimate).
So if I have an 100amp service to the house, it sure seems like I have plenty of headroom to add a 50 amp 14-50 outlet (even without the solar power). But I only have two adjacent breaker spots left in my electrical panel, which I know is just right for a 50 amp feed. (and in my specific case, my car would be charging during the day, and not at night on most days). So I'm pretty sure I won't need to upgrade to a 200amp service just for the 14-50 addition.
Now to my real question -- say I move out and rent the house to some tenants. Can I charge them for the total power they consume each month at the current electric company rates (16¢/Kwh) , but I would benefit from the power the solar panels produce? Is that legal? I really want to get solar here, but I will likely move out within the next two years, and since I'm paying an upfront fee for the solar installation (about $5k for the "full prepay" PPA plan) and getting the power at 6.6¢/Kwh. In other words, can I charge the tenants the 10¢/Kwh difference between current power rates and the rate I'm getting from SolarCity?
Thanks.
SolarCity has proposed the following for my house:
4,170 DC KW
3,640 AC KW
4,340 KWh/Year Estimate production
361 KWh/Month
At 120 volts, I think this translates to about 30 amps of power available on average (3.64KW/120volts=30.33Amps).
At 240 volts, I think this translates to about 15 amps of power available on average (3.64KW/120volts=15.16Amps).
Now looking at my actual grid usage for the last 12 months, I consumed 6,430 KwH over 364 days, 535 KWh/month, or 17.66 KwH per day (average).
If I take 17.66 Kwh per day, that's seems like 736 AC Watts draw for 24 hours.. . At 120 volts, I think that's an average of a 6.13 Amp draw.
During the hottest months, my usage went up to 30kwh per day, or about 1,300 watts or an average 10 amps draw (which makes sense, since my A/C unit is rated at a 10 amp draw, but doesn't run all the time during the summer). Heat is not electric.
Am I good so far? So it looks like the solar will cover about 2/3 of my power needs over the course of a year (this jives with the SolarCity estimate).
So if I have an 100amp service to the house, it sure seems like I have plenty of headroom to add a 50 amp 14-50 outlet (even without the solar power). But I only have two adjacent breaker spots left in my electrical panel, which I know is just right for a 50 amp feed. (and in my specific case, my car would be charging during the day, and not at night on most days). So I'm pretty sure I won't need to upgrade to a 200amp service just for the 14-50 addition.
Now to my real question -- say I move out and rent the house to some tenants. Can I charge them for the total power they consume each month at the current electric company rates (16¢/Kwh) , but I would benefit from the power the solar panels produce? Is that legal? I really want to get solar here, but I will likely move out within the next two years, and since I'm paying an upfront fee for the solar installation (about $5k for the "full prepay" PPA plan) and getting the power at 6.6¢/Kwh. In other words, can I charge the tenants the 10¢/Kwh difference between current power rates and the rate I'm getting from SolarCity?
Thanks.
In most places you're not allowed to directly charge tenants for electricity. Most owners just "include" the power by increasing the rent by an appropriate amount if they don't have separate metering per unit.
Wha? In every place I've rented I've paid the utility directly - landlord not involved at all.
As it should be under normal circumstances.
The question above was how to handle the solar. The utility bill clearly will not reflect the tenant's usage, so just charge a flat rate by including it in the rent and then owner pays the utility as he would if he was still living there.
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