Help - MYP or BMW iX

[DM206433]

View attachment 830517View attachment 830517
BMW i4 Is A Moose Test Disappointment, No Match For Tesla Model 3

Well done, you've linked an article to the wrong car.

 

[DM206433]

Tesla is catching up to competition especially with the build quality which has tremendously improved.

Yes, it's improved compared to how bad it was before. But if you compare my MIC 2021 M3 to my wife's 2019 BMW 3 Series, its not even remotely close still.

 

[prabhu]

Oh here we go...

Of course the OP needs to test drive one first. I wouldn't buy a car without at least a very decent test drive. Nobody is suggesting that he shouldn't. But I can tell you from being in BMW's high end SUVs that they're an absolute mile ahead of Tesla in just about every way that I'd care about as long as the range and charging infrastructure isn't a real concern.

Sure, your needs and wants might differ. I had a fully loaded X5 that I wanted to replace with an electric SUV due to the cost of premium petrol. Thanks to the car's efficiency and supercharger network, I successfully replaced it with a Model Y. I have made three 1000-mile trips with the family so far, all of which are effortless. On one of the trips, I was joined by a friend on an EV6 who unfortunately had some issues with GridServe, so they went back to their Range Rover for future trips.
My car has the same limitations as all others, but I feel promoting BMW, or another make is not the right approach.

 

[prabhu]

Yes, it's improved compared to how bad it was before. But if you compare my MIC 2021 M3 to my wife's 2019 BMW 3 Series, its not even remotely close still.

It may be on build quality, but how can you compare an EV to an ICE and say an ICE experience was better? The ICE experience was terrible for me, so I was desperate to dump it for an EV. Different people might have different needs and wants.

 

[phil4]

iX? I'd not touch it with a barge pole, one the worst looking cars I've ever seen.

But hey, if you're on the inside you can't see how bad it looks most of the time, and design is subjective. I'd take it over the MYP if I could look past the looks.

 

[DM206433]

It may be on build quality, but how can you compare an EV to an ICE and say an ICE experience was better? The ICE experience was terrible for me, so I was desperate to dump it for an EV. Different people might have different needs and wants.

Of course. I was specifically referring to build quality. But I'd suggest just about everything is better with the 3 series with the exception of what moves it forward. Which is obviously extremely important - thus me having a Model 3 and not a 3 series

 

[pgh69]

Can you share the specs of the iX on offer?

Yes here it is

 

[Durzel]

If you read the reply from @Vidyutyaan you can see both pros and cons. Any car would've both pros and cons so a test drive is absolutely necessary to determine if a given car is suitable for one's needs or not. I'm not glossing over any deficiencies in fact actively tweeting Tesla and Elon both directly and via teslaownersuk.

In the last 3 years, while competition is catching up with a Tesla even Tesla is catching up to competition especially with the build quality which has tremendously improved. Number of service requests raised per customer has significantly gone down and there are owners like me who are yet to raise their first request even after months.

Automatic driving on city streets - Elon has accepted several times that he made mistakes estimating date and that things are going to take time. I regularly follow the progress made for FSD beta and can honestly tell you that Tesla is not slacking off.

Whilst it's true that forums and FB groups etc only tend to expose issues, the ones there have been have been - in my opinion - pretty sobering reads. Either they've been things that should never happen, ought to be taken for granted in the 21st century (i.e. build and paint quality that is of a certain standard, etc) or they've been catastrophic. We should not be talking about Tesla catching up to the opposition on things as fundamental as build quality, in my opinion, not when they've been building cars for over a decade.

I'm not suggesting that other manufacturers don't have issues, but I don't know how you could possibly speak to people's issues generally based on your own experience of not having "to raise your first request even after months".

The bottom line for me was that I was seduced by the Tesla dream back in 2020, and took at face value what was being promised. I put up with the fact that the autonomous features were crippled because of UNECE (or at least that's the line given) because I figured it would get better. As it is though, it hasn't really. Nothing much has really improved, bar the build quality being more consistent post-China. Even autopilot is not as revolutionary now as I once believed, and other manufacturers have equivalent or better (i.e. no phantom braking) systems. Tesla has stood still in that respect, at least as far as Europe is concerned.

Also - I don't fully buy that UNECE is entirely to blame for all of this. Adaptive headlights have been fully legal in Europe for years, BMW, Audi, Merc, etc have systems that have seen several generations. Tesla started fitted ostensibly matrix-like headlights to their cars in early 2021, and since then nothing has been done with them. They are non-functional. In any event given Tesla can't seem to even get auto headlights working properly, and don't care to, then I have zero confidence that they could release a system in a sensible timeframe that has the sort of discrete partial dimming at oncoming cars that the marques I mentioned have delivered.

For me at this point Tesla feels to me very much like my F430 did, and they operate like Ferrari did years ago - i.e. you pay for the engine and the rest of the car comes for free, and you take it or leave it. With Tesla it feels to me that you pay for the battery, and the efficiency, but everything else is basically gifted to you at no extra cost and you accept it for what it is. I would say that as other manufacturers make leaps and bounds with their EV tech, this isn't going to wash for much longer.

I'm not so annoyed that I want to sell my M3P, mainly because it's so fast and I like the minimalist interior. But, I have driven cars less than half the price that do the basics - build quality, convenience features, etc so much better it's palpable when you drive them.

 

[prabhu]

Of course. I was specifically referring to build quality. But I'd suggest just about everything is better with the 3 series with the exception of what moves it forward. Which is obviously extremely important - thus me having a Model 3 and not a 3 series

You should watch the latest video by Munro. Focus on quality and design beauty would slow down the production process, which is against the vision of accelerating the transition to sustainable energy. Tesla is moving towards Giga Presses and paints job automation to churn out as many EVs as quickly as possible with acceptable quality and precision. Like the example I gave for EV6 friend, our charging infrastructure in this country is improving, but there are only 1800 ultra-rapid chargers, most of which are Tesla. So efficiency and charging networks must be the primary criteria for another year unless you value comfort and design more than the range.

Fun fact: Audi fat e-tron continue to outsell Q4 e-tron despite having crap efficiency since the people who buy them do not care about range.

 

[Durzel]

 

[DM206433]

Focus on quality and design beauty would slow down the production process

If the quality isn't there, I won't be buying another Tesla put it that way - and as soon as the charging network is opened up fully I can guarantee you that people will buy quality over mass production every day of the week - especially when these cars are now so expensive.

 

[prabhu]

Yes here it is

View attachment 830519

You need a test drive!

This car would be slower than many other cars with a 0-62 of 6.1seconds and is nowhere comparable to MYP in terms of performance, handling and efficiency. Then, it doesn't have some nice features like Parking Assistant Plus, Live Cockpit Plus (Not professional)

It is possible you might like this car after seeing it in person.

 

[DM206433]

View attachment 830520

Proper LOL moment there.

 

[prabhu]

If the quality isn't there, I won't be buying another Tesla put it that way - and as soon as the charging network is opened up fully I can guarantee you that people will buy quality over mass production every day of the week - especially when these cars are now so expensive.

Sure. This is good since you are switching to another EV instead of a Range Rover or something else.

 

[prabhu]

Whilst it's true that forums and FB groups etc only tend to expose issues, the ones there have been have been - in my opinion - pretty sobering reads. Either they've been things that should never happen, ought to be taken for granted in the 21st century (i.e. build and paint quality that is of a certain standard, etc) or they've been catastrophic. We should not be talking about Tesla catching up to the opposition on things as fundamental as build quality, in my opinion, not when they've been building cars for over a decade.

I'm not suggesting that other manufacturers don't have issues, but I don't know how you could possibly speak to people's issues generally based on your own experience of not having "to raise your first request even after months".

The bottom line for me was that I was seduced by the Tesla dream back in 2020, and took at face value what was being promised. I put up with the fact that the autonomous features were crippled because of UNECE (or at least that's the line given) because I figured it would get better. As it is though, it hasn't really. Nothing much has really improved, bar the build quality being more consistent post-China. Even autopilot is not as revolutionary now as I once believed, and other manufacturers have equivalent or better (i.e. no phantom braking) systems. Tesla has stood still in that respect, at least as far as Europe is concerned.

Also - I don't fully buy that UNECE is entirely to blame for all of this. Adaptive headlights have been fully legal in Europe for years, BMW, Audi, Merc, etc have systems that have seen several generations. Tesla started fitted ostensibly matrix-like headlights to their cars in early 2021, and since then nothing has been done with them. They are non-functional. In any event given Tesla can't seem to even get auto headlights working properly, and don't care to, then I have zero confidence that they could release a system in a sensible timeframe that has the sort of discrete partial dimming at oncoming cars that the marques I mentioned have delivered.

For me at this point Tesla feels to me very much like my F430 did, and they operate like Ferrari did years ago - i.e. you pay for the engine and the rest of the car comes for free, and you take it or leave it. With Tesla it feels to me that you pay for the battery, and the efficiency, but everything else is basically gifted to you at no extra cost and you accept it for what it is. I would say that as other manufacturers make leaps and bounds with their EV tech, this isn't going to wash for much longer.

I'm not so annoyed that I want to sell my M3P, mainly because it's so fast and I like the minimalist interior. But, I have driven cars less than half the price that do the basics - build quality, convenience features, etc so much better it's palpable when you drive them.

Any thoughts on Giga presses and accelerating the transition to sustainable energy?

 

[Durzel]

Any thoughts on Giga presses and accelerating the transition to sustainable energy?

It’s a noble goal and I’m in favour of it.

I’d like to be given the chance to make fully informed purchasing decisions, though. If I had known when I bought FSD that it was missold (at least in Europe) then I wouldn't have bought it. I could have contributed to "the vision" by sticking my £5,800 into TSLA shares instead, and I would've been significantly better off financially, and no worse off in terms of car features.

With respect if your argument ultimately boils down to saying that we should be more accepting of flaws and missing or broken functionality because Tesla is rushing to build things as quickly as they can so humanity can be saved, well, again - it is not credible in my opinion. I could've bought an EV at half the price of my car, and donated the rest to causes that have similar goals and it would arguably have a greater effect than paying Tesla £60k for a car and hoping that their profit margin on it feeds back into these goals. Tesla is a profit seeking entity at the end of the day, with shareholders that expect value on their investment.

Ultimately the "but sustainable future?" excuse is not going to wash with most people when they have a car they are unhappy with, for whatever reason, or if they're in the market to buy one. Let's not forget that Tesla is a nealy trillion dollar market cap company, it's not like they're some indie fighting the good fight in the face of adversity. They're selling aspirational cars at premium pricing, it's not like they're eating a loss on each car just to get as many people as they can into EVs. It is incredibly naive to think otherwise in my opinion.

 

[Jeeves]

Most of my previous cars were BMWs, and I do wish that some aspects of my M3 were as well put together.

That said, I wouldn't buy a non-Tesla EV because of the charging network. Even with some of the Tesla ones opened up to other cars, it just wouldn't be good enough for me. Only yesterday I visited a Gridserve installation with lots of new, high-speed chargers. The first one I connected to didn't work. The same happened to another driver on a different bay. I had a Kia for a few months whilst my M3 was being repaired, and long journeys were a nightmare due to the charger network experience. Of course this only matters if you plan to make lots of long journeys.

 

[UrbanSplash]

I think what is being discussed is an iX versus a YP? Arguably similar type of car. Will come down to things like practicality and range. I’ve a Y and wouldn’t swap it for anything else currently. It ticks all the boxes. Been parked next to an iX and from what I can see it’s more along the lines of a stylised X5. Try them both. Styling is personal preference.

 

[candida]

Any thoughts on Giga presses and accelerating the transition to sustainable energy?

My thought was that @Durzel had a considered and thoughtful post and you really haven't addressed any of those issues.

For my part, I think "accelerating the transition to sustainable energy" is guff. Tesla and EVs generally (hybrids to a lesser degree) will undoubtedly accelerate the improvement of quality of city air. That's wonderful. (Adblue/Euro 6 helped too, though). But adoption of EVs is doing nothing to change how energy is generated. Look at China: huge EV adoption, huge coal use showing no signs of slowing.

The argument for Giga presses seems to be that Tesla can churn out more cars, more quickly. Not sure that's doing anything for the environment, either. Since when was "more stuff" an environmental good?

 

[prabhu]

It’s a noble goal and I’m in favour of it.

I’d like to be given the chance to make fully informed purchasing decisions, though. If I had known when I bought FSD that it was missold (at least in Europe) then I wouldn't have bought it. I could have contributed to "the vision" by sticking my £5,800 into TSLA shares instead, and I would've been significantly better off financially, and no worse off in terms of car features.

With respect if your argument ultimately boils down to saying that we should be more accepting of flaws and missing or broken functionality because Tesla is rushing to build things as quickly as they can so humanity can be saved, well, again - it is not credible in my opinion. I could've bought an EV at half the price of my car, and donated the rest to causes that have similar goals and it would arguably have a greater effect than paying Tesla £60k for a car and hoping that their profit margin on it feeds back into these goals. Tesla is a profit seeking entity at the end of the day, with shareholders that expect value on their investment.

Ultimately the "but sustainable future?" excuse is not going to wash with most people when they have a car they are unhappy with, for whatever reason, or if they're in the market to buy one. Let's not forget that Tesla is a nealy trillion dollar market cap company, it's not like they're some indie fighting the good fight in the face of adversity. They're selling aspirational cars at premium pricing, it's not like they're eating a loss on each car just to get as many people as they can into EVs. It is incredibly naive to think otherwise in my opinion.

Ok, all reasonable points for which I have no answers or counterarguments. So let's give the thread back to OP to discuss iX vs MYP.