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Here we go again with ‘unintended acceleration’…
- Thread starter richrootes
- Start date
Just like the short driver, older demographics, combined with aftermarket floor mats that resulted in massive unnecessary recalls for Toyota in 2010....
www.thecarconnection.com
Toyota Sudden Acceleration: Is It All Older Drivers' Fault?
So-called "sudden acceleration" is an ugly mix of media frenzy, sophisticated engineering, and complex human-machine interaction. But recent data on Toyota sudden-acceleration complaints seems to show--with some qualifiers--that the bulk of the incidents ending in fatalities have been reported...
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Odd. An article that says it maybe driver error. Breath of fresh air.
UncleCreepy
Member
Tl; dr: car accelerated unintentionally, but the problem wasn't the car, it was the idiot in the driver's seat.
The long version: I never thought I would be the one reporting an unintentional acceleration, but it happened to me, too.
What happened was that I drove down an overpass and shortly after pulled into a parking lot to the left. When I was in the lot I took my foot off the accelerator and the car started picking up speed. No crazy acceleration, but it did accelerate. It took me a fraction of a second to touch the brake and the whole ordeal was over.
It didn't make any sense to me since no AP or TACC was active at the time. After all, I used the break as I was slowing down. Or did I? It all happened so fast.
Rather than asking for opinions here or talking to news media or suggesting a class action suit, I contacted Tesla right after the incident and asked them to pull the data to see what really happened.
I received a message the same day saying that someone will look into it and get back to me within 24 hours. Very good. Respond, take the lead and set expectations.
The next day someone got back to me and explained what happened:
Let me just quote it to be as accurate as possible:
"Hi, thank you for the accurate time and description of the event. I have investigated this and found that a few minutes earlier in this drive the right stalk was pressed down to the first position activating traffic aware cruise control. The set speed was 49 kph but the accelerator was pressed to keep the speed slightly higher than that causing a message to be displayed that the driver is overriding cruise control. Just before the event of concern, the car was controlling speed for an in lane vehicle ahead of you, then controlling speed for a sharp turn, then cruise control had clear road to accelerate back to the chosen set speed and you pressed the brake to cancel it. Hopefully this clearly explains what happened but if you prefer a phone call to explain further we can arrange this."
This makes a lot of sense to me. I did in fact never use the friction brake and simply forgot that TACC was active. So yeah, it was an unintentional acceleration, but the problem wasn't the car, it was me. I was even able to replicate the whole event a few days later and it happened exactly like it did before.
The only thing I find odd is that it is possible to slow down the car below the set speed. This can be done by first going a bit faster than the set speed and then easing off on the accelerator without fully letting it go. The car will slow down below the set speed. However, the moment the accelerator is fully released, the car will attempt to get back to the programmed speed.
I guess I should pay more attention to which automation is currently active. I have to admit that I did not remember that TACC was active at the time of the incident. Lesson learned and a big thank you to Tesla for quickly responding with a detailed explanation of what happened.
The long version: I never thought I would be the one reporting an unintentional acceleration, but it happened to me, too.
What happened was that I drove down an overpass and shortly after pulled into a parking lot to the left. When I was in the lot I took my foot off the accelerator and the car started picking up speed. No crazy acceleration, but it did accelerate. It took me a fraction of a second to touch the brake and the whole ordeal was over.
It didn't make any sense to me since no AP or TACC was active at the time. After all, I used the break as I was slowing down. Or did I? It all happened so fast.
Rather than asking for opinions here or talking to news media or suggesting a class action suit, I contacted Tesla right after the incident and asked them to pull the data to see what really happened.
I received a message the same day saying that someone will look into it and get back to me within 24 hours. Very good. Respond, take the lead and set expectations.
The next day someone got back to me and explained what happened:
Let me just quote it to be as accurate as possible:
"Hi, thank you for the accurate time and description of the event. I have investigated this and found that a few minutes earlier in this drive the right stalk was pressed down to the first position activating traffic aware cruise control. The set speed was 49 kph but the accelerator was pressed to keep the speed slightly higher than that causing a message to be displayed that the driver is overriding cruise control. Just before the event of concern, the car was controlling speed for an in lane vehicle ahead of you, then controlling speed for a sharp turn, then cruise control had clear road to accelerate back to the chosen set speed and you pressed the brake to cancel it. Hopefully this clearly explains what happened but if you prefer a phone call to explain further we can arrange this."
This makes a lot of sense to me. I did in fact never use the friction brake and simply forgot that TACC was active. So yeah, it was an unintentional acceleration, but the problem wasn't the car, it was me. I was even able to replicate the whole event a few days later and it happened exactly like it did before.
The only thing I find odd is that it is possible to slow down the car below the set speed. This can be done by first going a bit faster than the set speed and then easing off on the accelerator without fully letting it go. The car will slow down below the set speed. However, the moment the accelerator is fully released, the car will attempt to get back to the programmed speed.
I guess I should pay more attention to which automation is currently active. I have to admit that I did not remember that TACC was active at the time of the incident. Lesson learned and a big thank you to Tesla for quickly responding with a detailed explanation of what happened.
I also find this behavior odd. I’m not sure if the other answer, not dropping below the set speed, would have different issues.
I just drove across the country to Niagara Falls, and back in my M3. I had several episodes of the car's cruise control suddenly changing the set limit to ~50kph over the speed limit, with no input from me, This occurred as the car was slowing down in response to the posted speed limit signs, This all happened so fast that I had no chance to properly document it.
Tesla said:
I strongly suspect this is the main reason why you were below set speed.
UncleCreepy
Member
Nope, I tried it and you can get below the set speed even on a straight road without any other traffic, at least with the car software that I have installed (2022.20.8 I think).
Just accelerate above the set speed, then get the power bar into the green range without fully releasing the acceleraror And the car will slow down below the set speed.
I tried the same with my motorcycle's cruise control and it will automatically add power the moment it reaches the set speed. I'm not sure what Tesla's reasoning is.
@UncleCreepy ive definitely experienced it. But I could not recreate it today. I’m on 22.45.15. But maybe I’m slowing too quickly.
I think pushing down again on the right stall to engage TACC is not a great choice. Some people have posted on here that they double tap the right stall because of the delay required to put it into drive, and occasionally it leads to accidental engagement of TACC.
I know it's user error, I just think it should be more "idiot" proof (not calling anyone an idiot, just saying that Tesla should extra safeguard against accidental behaviors, especially in cars with this much acceleration).
I know it's user error, I just think it should be more "idiot" proof (not calling anyone an idiot, just saying that Tesla should extra safeguard against accidental behaviors, especially in cars with this much acceleration).
Yep, happens to me all the time. But the possible resulting "unintended acceleration " is not that much of an issue as we use "chill" mode.
UncleCreepy
Member
It wasn't much of an issue for sure. I don't think it makes much of a difference if the car is in chill or sport mode though. As long as TACC controls the car's speed, it will always accelerate more or less gently.
Uncle creepy, thanks for the description.
Humans (mis)managing automation has been the source of countless accidents, many with Tesla, and hundreds more in the aviation world.
Flying is a little more complex (3rd dimension and all that), but many aviation accidents can be attributed to pilots not understanding, or not remembering what autopilot mode they’re in. So when the aircraft does something unexpected, it’s usually because they were literally expecting it to do something else. If that happens close to the edges of the air (the most dangerous part of the air - the middle of it is pretty safe) accidents ensue.
So for all us terrestrial drivers, keeping track of what mode our autopilot is in will reduce the incidences of the autopilot doing something “unexpected.” The quickest way to stop that activity is hitting the brakes, just like you did.
Kind of ironic that Tesla naming it “autopilot” has resulted in accidents that are similar in nature to many aviation accidents using autopilot.
Humans (mis)managing automation has been the source of countless accidents, many with Tesla, and hundreds more in the aviation world.
Flying is a little more complex (3rd dimension and all that), but many aviation accidents can be attributed to pilots not understanding, or not remembering what autopilot mode they’re in. So when the aircraft does something unexpected, it’s usually because they were literally expecting it to do something else. If that happens close to the edges of the air (the most dangerous part of the air - the middle of it is pretty safe) accidents ensue.
So for all us terrestrial drivers, keeping track of what mode our autopilot is in will reduce the incidences of the autopilot doing something “unexpected.” The quickest way to stop that activity is hitting the brakes, just like you did.
Kind of ironic that Tesla naming it “autopilot” has resulted in accidents that are similar in nature to many aviation accidents using autopilot.
Simply, aircraft only crash where the air meets land or water. “The edges of the air.” In the “middle of the air”, there’s nothing to hit except more air, or occasionally, another aircraft.
It’s an old pilot joke. “Stay away from the edges of the air…”
It kinda goes with old jokes like “you can never have too much fuel, unless you’re on fire”, or “the most useless things to a pilot - runway behind you, altitude above you, or fuel left behind in the fuel truck”.
UncleCreepy
Member
Thanks for that explanation, makes way more sense now. Obvious in hindsight, but I was thinking different altitudes or something.
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