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Home charging over long distance? 30 - 40 feet at least

Frank99

April 2018 Model 3 LR RWD, EAP, FSD
Apr 7, 2016
312
409
Arizona
Would it make a big difference? If I used a splitter where one end is still 10-30 (dryer), and the other is a 14-50 (for Tesla)? Other than the ground, the amps would have to stay well below 30 anyway correct?

I found one but here's no reviews on it
No real difference, as long as no one drives a lawnmower over the cord. Even then, the safety ground may or may not provide any additional safety. I guess I’m just a fan of having a ground available.

This is the version I meant to link to:
 

brkaus

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2014
8,028
6,512
Austin, TX
My only concern would be price. HOA themselves charge 100 something for just the application, when I can get an extension for that much.
True. But you cannot beat the convenience. With a cord your going to have to leave a window open. Something draped outside in the sun, or the hassle of rolling it up.

Do you have any outlet in your garage? If you don’t drive much, a standard outlet might be enough. Especially if it happens to be a 5-20 and you get the proper adapter.

Anyway, I’d call an electrician and ask or ask the hoa about the fee if you use their preferred electrician.
 

1LE McQueen

Member
Mar 22, 2019
269
318
Arizona
Since the 10-30 does not have a dedicated ground, will the gen 2 NEMA adapter know to use the neutral as a ground? If so, will the splitter cable lead to any discharge damaging my dryer?
 

1LE McQueen

Member
Mar 22, 2019
269
318
Arizona
True. But you cannot beat the convenience. With a cord your going to have to leave a window open. Something draped outside in the sun, or the hassle of rolling it up.

Do you have any outlet in your garage? If you don’t drive much, a standard outlet might be enough. Especially if it happens to be a 5-20 and you get the proper adapter.

Anyway, I’d call an electrician and ask or ask the hoa about the fee if you use their preferred electrician.

My commute is about 40 miles a day, unfortunately a 5-20 wouldn't do me well. That's a great idea though, i'll ask HOA. Thanks!
 

brkaus

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2014
8,028
6,512
Austin, TX
While I do suggest investing in an outlet…. Prior to getting my WC installed, I did use one of these for 6 months.


It is for EV charging only. It does not have a neutral. It that makes it lighter. It also has a plug that works in a 14-30 or 14-50 outlet. It will work with a 14-50 Tesla adapter- by 100% sure to set the car to 32 amps or lower.
 

brkaus

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2014
8,028
6,512
Austin, TX
Oops. You said 10-30.

and I’m not sure what the 10-30 adapter from Tesla does with the neutral. It is not a ground and shouldn’t be bonded to ground anywhere except the main panel… So…
 
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1LE McQueen

Member
Mar 22, 2019
269
318
Arizona
Oops. You said 10-30.

and I’m not sure what the 10-30 adapter from Tesla does with the neutral. It is not a ground and shouldn’t be bonded to ground anywhere except the main panel… So…

Thanks. My panel is in my garage, I don't know if it's considered a sub panel or main. I asked HOA and hope they get back to me soon. I've read conflicting answers on if 10-30s neutral is used as ground or not. Hopefully HOA knows.
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
6,660
7,951
Boise, ID
and I’m not sure what the 10-30 adapter from Tesla does with the neutral. It is not a ground and shouldn’t be bonded to ground anywhere except the main panel… So…
That part is pretty simple. The Tesla 10-30 plug literally just pretends that it's a ground anyway. The car charging doesn't need any 120V connection for charging, so it just uses the two pins for 240V and then just acts like the other one is a ground.
Thanks. My panel is in my garage, I don't know if it's considered a sub panel or main. I asked HOA and hope they get back to me soon. I've read conflicting answers on if 10-30s neutral is used as ground or not. Hopefully HOA knows.
Well, they wouldn't really know, because there isn't anything FOR them to know. The 10-30 outlet is just installed as a 10-30 outlet is. It's the appliances that do things with them. And what they do is kind of hybrid dual-purposing that pin for ground and/or/both neutral. It's just that most appliances plugged into that may be sending current down that neutral line frequently. A Tesla plug won't.
 
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1LE McQueen

Member
Mar 22, 2019
269
318
Arizona
That part is pretty simple. The Tesla 10-30 plug literally just pretends that it's a ground anyway. The car charging doesn't need any 120V connection for charging, so it just uses the two pins for 240V and then just acts like the other one is a ground.

Well, they wouldn't really know, because there isn't anything FOR them to know. The 10-30 outlet is just installed as a 10-30 outlet is. It's the appliances that do things with them. And what they do is kind of hybrid dual-purposing that pin for ground and/or/both neutral. It's just that most appliances plugged into that may be sending current down that neutral line frequently. A Tesla plug won't.

I live in a condominium complex ran by the same HOA. I reach out to the same two people who are usually pretty sharp when I have a question. Granted they may or may not know anything about the breaker box or the power, but i'll know soon as they respond to my email.

Please bear with me as i'm learning as I go along. I understand the 10-30 is HOT-HOT-NEUTRAL. In some cases with what i've been reading, the NEUTRAL can be tied to a ground in the breaker box and consequentially, can be reliably used as a ground instead of a neutral. I'd like to be corrected if wrong - If I was to get a 10-30 adapter from Tesla, would it not use the neutral as a ground? If so, then i'd need to know if the NEUTRAL is tied to a ground.

I have no idea how many Volts the 10-30 is. My breaker box is a Homeline HOM24L125TC Type 1 Enclosure Series 3, rating at 125 amps max. Haven't a clue how to decode all that.
 

brkaus

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2014
8,028
6,512
Austin, TX
I have no idea how many Volts the 10-30 is. My breaker box is a Homeline HOM24L125TC Type 1 Enclosure Series 3, rating at 125 amps max. Haven't a clue how to decode all that.

Most breaker boxes in the US are going to be 240v (split phase 120v). The box would have either 240 or 120 available as well as neutral and ground.

Depending on the other loads in your house, 125a may or may not provide enough capacity to add much. Question for an electrician. Also, a 125a rated box may not actually have 125a supplied to it.

dont underestimate the value of a 6-20 outlet if that’s all you can get cheaply. 10 or so miles per hour for a model 3.

lookup NEMA plugs for more info…. But in general.

5 series are 120v (hot neutral-ground)
6 series are 240v. (Hot-Hot-ground)
10 series are 120/240 (hot-hot-neutral)
15 series are 120/240 (hot-hot-neutral-ground)

You get 120v between a hot and neutral.
You get 240v between two opposite phase hots.

edit to add - the 5- series plugs are the typical household outlets.

10 series are old style dryer/stove
15 are new style dryer/stove.

dryers and stoves will use both 120v for lights, motors & 240v for heating elements.

6 series are more general utility.

Also interesting, but very off topic, RVs use a 14-50 in many cases, but they don’t use 240v. They most always use the hot-neutral only.
 
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Frank99

April 2018 Model 3 LR RWD, EAP, FSD
Apr 7, 2016
312
409
Arizona
A 10-30 is always 240V.

Neutral is always connected to ground at the main breaker box. If you have a subpanel, neutral isn’t connected to ground again, but doesn’t need to be because they’re still connected back at the main panel.

You don’t really care if your panel is wired as a subpanel or not; at your panel ground is ground and neutral is neutral, and they’re connected together somewhere. If they aren’t, your entire building is a safety hazard and needs emergency repairs.

The 10-30 doesn’t have ground because it was defined and created before it was decided that having ground was a good idea. That’s why there are two-prong 120v outlets also-they were defined and created before it was decided to add ground and create the standard three-prong outlet.

As Rocky_h noted, the Tesla Mobile Connector really doesn’t care too much about neutral or ground. It checks to make sure they’re there on outlets that are supposed to have them. On outlets like the 10-30, it uses neutral as safety ground because that’s as good as it can do. And that’s good enough, especially when it doesn’t put any current on neutral.
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
6,660
7,951
Boise, ID
Gosh dang it, dude! I had typed up a big response, and then @brkaus covered it all before I could get to it. He mentioned learning about the outlet types. This is one were Wikipedia has a great page on it that shows what they are and what they're for:

Please bear with me as i'm learning as I go along. I understand the 10-30 is HOT-HOT-NEUTRAL. In some cases with what i've been reading, the NEUTRAL can be tied to a ground in the breaker box and consequentially, can be reliably used as a ground instead of a neutral. I'd like to be corrected if wrong - If I was to get a 10-30 adapter from Tesla, would it not use the neutral as a ground? If so, then i'd need to know if the NEUTRAL is tied to a ground.
Oh yeah, this part I can still address specifically. That's not just "can be tied to a ground in the breaker box". That's always. That's electric code for houses. Neutral must be tied to ground only at that one place--in the main panel. So therefore, neutral can get some current on it through the house, but is being held pretty steadily near 0V, so that's pretty reasonable to use that as a ground.
 

1LE McQueen

Member
Mar 22, 2019
269
318
Arizona
Most breaker boxes in the US are going to be 240v (split phase 120v). The box would have either 240 or 120 available as well as neutral and ground.

Depending on the other loads in your house, 125a may or may not provide enough capacity to add much. Question for an electrician. Also, a 125a rated box may not actually have 125a supplied to it.

dont underestimate the value of a 6-20 outlet if that’s all you can get cheaply. 10 or so miles per hour for a model 3.

lookup NEMA plugs for more info…. But in general.

5 series are 120v (hot neutral-ground)
6 series are 240v. (Hot-Hot-ground)
10 series are 120/240 (hot-hot-neutral)
15 series are 120/240 (hot-hot-neutral-ground)

You get 120v between a hot and neutral.
You get 240v between two opposite phase hots.

edit to add - the 5- series plugs are the typical household outlets.

10 series are old style dryer/stove
15 are new style dryer/stove.

dryers and stoves will use both 120v for lights, motors & 240v for heating elements.

6 series are more general utility.

Also interesting, but very off topic, RVs use a 14-50 in many cases, but they don’t use 240v. They most always use the hot-neutral only.

A 10-30 is always 240V.

Neutral is always connected to ground at the main breaker box. If you have a subpanel, neutral isn’t connected to ground again, but doesn’t need to be because they’re still connected back at the main panel.

You don’t really care if your panel is wired as a subpanel or not; at your panel ground is ground and neutral is neutral, and they’re connected together somewhere. If they aren’t, your entire building is a safety hazard and needs emergency repairs.

The 10-30 doesn’t have ground because it was defined and created before it was decided that having ground was a good idea. That’s why there are two-prong 120v outlets also-they were defined and created before it was decided to add ground and create the standard three-prong outlet.

As Rocky_h noted, the Tesla Mobile Connector really doesn’t care too much about neutral or ground. It checks to make sure they’re there on outlets that are supposed to have them. On outlets like the 10-30, it uses neutral as safety ground because that’s as good as it can do. And that’s good enough, especially when it doesn’t put any current on neutral.

Thank you both very much! I feel much more comfortable using the 10-30 outlet now. I mean, in the 7 years i've lived here my dryer has never done anything funky or sparked so that should've been the first sign LOL.

The official plan is to get a 10-30 splitter, use one side for the dryer, other for a high-quality extension to connect to Tesla's 10-30 adapter. With the extension, i'll put the amps at 15 or 20 and feel for heat after an hour or two. No overnight charging til I get comfortable with my settings. I understand the Tesla built-in heat detector wont work with an extension. It's an unfortunate side effect of not wanting to pay 100's of dollars for a wall outlet in the garage, til I move at least.
 
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1LE McQueen

Member
Mar 22, 2019
269
318
Arizona
Revisiting this thread because I like having options.. got quotes from two separate electricians. About 500 to install a NEMA 14-50 or 6-50 outlet literally right next to my breaker box. Is that about right or am I being taken for a ride?
 

brkaus

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2014
8,028
6,512
Austin, TX
Revisiting this thread because I like having options.. got quotes from two separate electricians. About 500 to install a NEMA 14-50 or 6-50 outlet literally right next to my breaker box. Is that about right or am I being taken for a ride?
If it’s fully permitted I would expect between $300-$600 depending on rates in your area. I would hope it would include a decent quality outlet.

With a decent outlet and a gfci breaker, it’s around $200 in parts. Permit adds cost and time. Plus the trip, actual work, surprises, etc.
 

Frank99

April 2018 Model 3 LR RWD, EAP, FSD
Apr 7, 2016
312
409
Arizona
Well, a quality 14-50 outlet is $40-$100, and a 50A GFCI breaker is $100-$150. Add in wire and a box, and let’s call parts cost about $200-$300. I don’t know what a permit and inspection would cost; throw perhaps $75 in to make the bureaucrats happy.
Yeah, $500 is probably reasonable.
…and ninja’ed by brkaus.
 

1LE McQueen

Member
Mar 22, 2019
269
318
Arizona
Sorry I said 500, meant to say both quotes were around 600.

I was hoping for like 300.. maybe 400 MAX but reality is rough 🤦‍♂️ I'll keep trying other local electricians.

I'm in the Phoenix area.
 

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