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Home charging over long distance? 30 - 40 feet at least

Frank99

April 2018 Model 3 LR RWD, EAP, FSD
Apr 7, 2016
312
409
Arizona
For the short distance you’re talking about, there’s no cost advantage to installing a 6-50 so I’d without a doubt install a 14-50.
Tell the electrician that your parents come out once a year in their RV and need a place to plug in. Don’t tell them that you want to charge your Tesla. That right there might save you $100.
Otherwise, get a couple of bids and choose the middle one is the best you can do legally. Illegally, sure- buy the $10 outlet from HD, the $15 non-GFCI breaker, $30 worth of boxes, wire, conduit, and do it yourself without a permit. Lotsa ways for that to bite you in the buttocks though.
 
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1LE McQueen

Member
Mar 22, 2019
269
318
Arizona
Yeah I'm not the adventurous type who would tackle this on my own. More skittish like the squirrel avatar.

I've been saying EV haha haven't mentioned tesla once. But if pottery helps, then pottery it is!
 
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1LE McQueen

Member
Mar 22, 2019
269
318
Arizona
My parents are friends with a realtor who does home rebuilds. She gave them her contractors info, so I called. Dude quoted me 275 for everything. Beats the heck out of almost 600! Have to remember to not go to big name services and find trusted contractors / contacts instead.

Then again, we'll see how good of a job he really does!
 
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Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
6,660
7,951
Boise, ID
My parents are friends with a realtor who does home rebuilds. She gave them her contractors info, so I called. Dude quoted me 275 for everything. Beats the heck out of almost 600! Have to remember to not go to big name services and find trusted contractors / contacts instead.
At that price, I am pretty certain he does not know about using a good type of receptacle or about the GFCI breaker requirement. So you should make sure to bring those things up and that may adjust the bid some.
 

1LE McQueen

Member
Mar 22, 2019
269
318
Arizona
At that price, I am pretty certain he does not know about using a good type of receptacle or about the GFCI breaker requirement. So you should make sure to bring those things up and that may adjust the bid some.

Thanks. If that realtor who flips custom homes trusts him, I imagine the dude knows what he's doing. My HOA is asking for his name, license, and insurance as well. I live in a condominium and our HOA is unbelievably nosy. Though i'll still keep my guard up and ask questions.
 

Frank99

April 2018 Model 3 LR RWD, EAP, FSD
Apr 7, 2016
312
409
Arizona
Ehh, he probably knows a guy who knows a guy who found some electrical supplies that "fell off a truck", so he's just passing along the savings to you. ;)

Hope it all works out for you; good charging at home is IMHO an essential part of a good EV experience.
 
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1LE McQueen

Member
Mar 22, 2019
269
318
Arizona
Ehh, he probably knows a guy who knows a guy who found some electrical supplies that "fell off a truck", so he's just passing along the savings to you. ;)

Hope it all works out for you; good charging at home is IMHO an essential part of a good EV experience.

I'm not sure who the true thief would be.. this guy finding things that fell off a truck, or the companies who want to charge $600 for a 1 or 2 hour job 😆

Thanks! I'm really looking forward to getting everything done. I just need my Model 3 to get here already.
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
6,660
7,951
Boise, ID
Thanks. If that realtor who flips custom homes trusts him, I imagine the dude knows what he's doing.
Well, but that's why I brought these two things up. They are not normal usual types of things that are involved in house remodel kind of wiring or are new and EV-specific things in electric code.

Most builders/electricians use the normal Leviton cheap outlets. They are code compliant and fine, except that EV charging is a long term very heavy load, so using a more robust outlet is just a good idea that a lot of electricians wouldn't think of or think is needed. I would still recommend it.

And as far as the GFCI breaker, that one is a new condition that was added to the NEC in the 2017 version that applies only for outlets being added for EV charging. A lot of electricians might not think of that, because it's not required for regular outlets for other things that are not for electric vehicle charging, which is just strange, but it is what it is. So that's just new and unique and something to ask about, rather than just assume he already knows that. If he's only been doing regular house wiring, he might not have run into this yet or known that this new requirement got added.
 

1LE McQueen

Member
Mar 22, 2019
269
318
Arizona
Well, but that's why I brought these two things up. They are not normal usual types of things that are involved in house remodel kind of wiring or are new and EV-specific things in electric code.

Most builders/electricians use the normal Leviton cheap outlets. They are code compliant and fine, except that EV charging is a long term very heavy load, so using a more robust outlet is just a good idea that a lot of electricians wouldn't think of or think is needed. I would still recommend it.

And as far as the GFCI breaker, that one is a new condition that was added to the NEC in the 2017 version that applies only for outlets being added for EV charging. A lot of electricians might not think of that, because it's not required for regular outlets for other things that are not for electric vehicle charging, which is just strange, but it is what it is. So that's just new and unique and something to ask about, rather than just assume he already knows that. If he's only been doing regular house wiring, he might not have run into this yet or known that this new requirement got added.

I appreciate the elaboration. I didn't mention it was for a Tesla (as i've been taught by you all, I don't want to pay the Tesla Tax haha), but I did say it was for an electric vehicle. Actually, the first thing he asked after that was "is this for a Tesla". I said I'm looking into different EV's. I will ask about the outlet and the GFCI breaker. I don't plan on unplugging the 14-50 adapter after each use, even for out of town road trips.

I'm a novice so forgive me - my breaker is in the garage, and there are extra spaces for this new outlet. Isn't that the same thing?
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
6,660
7,951
Boise, ID
As a GFCI breaker. All those switches in the fuse box, isn't that the same thing?
Ah, no, they are different. There are standard breakers that cost about $20, and then there are a special type that are called GFCI breakers that cost about $100. Regular breakers are to check for a basic short of the power wires, where the current in the looped circuit path just goes up really high. A GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupt) type is to check if current is leaking outside of the circuit on a path to ground. These are usually required in wet locations, like bathroom or kitchen outlets, because a wet touch that electrocutes a person would be that type of path out of the circuit to ground. In bathrooms, they don't usually do it with the breakers. It's usually those GFCI outlets that have the "test" and "reset" buttons built into them.

There was kind of weird requirement in the large section put into National Electric Code in 2017 that stated that any outlet being installed for the purpose of charging electric vehicles required that kind of breaker. It's a little dumb, because you could have an outlet for a welder or a mobile home that doesn't require it, but if it's "intended" for an EV, then it requires something different--bleagh.

That's why I mentioned if someone knew that part of the code that required the $100 breaker, it would be hard to see the entire job with all the other parts, and his labor/time to do the job being only $275. That would be over a third of the cost just in that one part, so I don't think he was expecting to have to use that expensive type of breaker.
 
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1LE McQueen

Member
Mar 22, 2019
269
318
Arizona
Ah, no, they are different. There are standard breakers that cost about $20, and then there are a special type that are called GFCI breakers that cost about $100. Regular breakers are to check for a basic short of the power wires, where the current in the looped circuit path just goes up really high. A GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupt) type is to check if current is leaking outside of the circuit on a path to ground. These are usually required in wet locations, like bathroom or kitchen outlets, because a wet touch that electrocutes a person would be that type of path out of the circuit to ground. In bathrooms, they don't usually do it with the breakers. It's usually those GFCI outlets that have the "test" and "reset" buttons built into them.

There was kind of weird requirement in the large section put into National Electric Code in 2017 that stated that any outlet being installed for the purpose of charging electric vehicles required that kind of breaker. It's a little dumb, because you could have an outlet for a welder or a mobile home that doesn't require it, but if it's "intended" for an EV, then it requires something different--bleagh.

That's why I mentioned if someone knew that part of the code that required the $100 breaker, it would be hard to see the entire job with all the other parts, and his labor/time to do the job being only $275. That would be over a third of the cost just in that one part, so I don't think he was expecting to have to use that expensive type of breaker.

Gotcha! I'm learning so much about electricity. Thank you. if it's not necessary, and keeps the cost down to avoid it, that's my definite route. The panel and outlet are / will be in the front of my garage - there's no water anywhere within 10 feet, even if it rains. Maybe this is a requirement we can ignore 😆 PS It's for a pottery maker machine. who said anything about an EV?
 

Frank99

April 2018 Model 3 LR RWD, EAP, FSD
Apr 7, 2016
312
409
Arizona
Well, if your intent is to install a kiln, then no GFCI is required. The fact that there just happens to be an outlet there when you go to plug in your EV Is serendipitous, and it’s perfectly legal to plug into it.
At least if you can convince the county inspector.
 

ZilWin

Member
May 29, 2021
172
114
North America, Earth
Thank you both very much! I feel much more comfortable using the 10-30 outlet now. I mean, in the 7 years i've lived here my dryer has never done anything funky or sparked so that should've been the first sign LOL.

The official plan is to get a 10-30 splitter, use one side for the dryer, other for a high-quality extension to connect to Tesla's 10-30 adapter. With the extension, i'll put the amps at 15 or 20 and feel for heat after an hour or two. No overnight charging til I get comfortable with my settings. I understand the Tesla built-in heat detector wont work with an extension. It's an unfortunate side effect of not wanting to pay 100's of dollars for a wall outlet in the garage, til I move at least.
If you are going to do the shared outlet between your dryer and EV, why not check the rating of the breaker so you know what the circuit is rated for? Then set up your EV to charge at 80% of the breaker rating and set the charge time for after midnight when you know your dryer won't be in use to overload the circuit. That way you'll maximize your charge rate. Make sure the wire gauge of your drop cable is rated for the current you are drawing over the length of the cable. American Wire Gauge Chart and AWG Electrical Current Load Limits table with ampacities, wire sizes, skin depth frequencies and wire breaking strength
 

davewill

Active Member
Feb 5, 2014
1,828
1,981
San Diego, CA, US
My parents are friends with a realtor who does home rebuilds. She gave them her contractors info, so I called. Dude quoted me 275 for everything. Beats the heck out of almost 600! Have to remember to not go to big name services and find trusted contractors / contacts instead.

Then again, we'll see how good of a job he really does!
In a multi-family dwelling, DO NOT allow him to do this job unpermitted. The risk is emphatically not worth it.
 

1LE McQueen

Member
Mar 22, 2019
269
318
Arizona
In a multi-family dwelling, DO NOT allow him to do this job unpermitted. The risk is emphatically not worth it.

Definitely. He has to send my HOA his license & insurance.

At least 3/4 of the electricians I talked to were shocked I had to actually tell and receive approval from my HOA.
 

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