Honda Clarity FCEV revealed!

[anticitizen13.7]

Pricing on the new Clarity has been announced:

http://blog.caranddriver.com/high-price-of-hydrogen-honda-clarity-fuel-cell-will-sticker-for-nearly-60k/

Starts at $60,000, or can be leased for $500/month. California only, and prospective buyers/leasers must undergo some kind of screening process.

This is fail on so many levels. How many people are going to want to pay 60k for something like this? It doesn't look great, it's performance is kind of average for a family sedan, it has limited fueling infrastructure, and the California-only restriction limits it even further.

I'm going to predict that the Clarity is pretty much doomed in the U.S. market.

 

[RobStark]

and the California-only restriction limits it even further.

Can't buy or lease the car in San Diego CA nor Fresno CA nor Eureka CA.

You can buy in Los Angeles County,Orange County, the counties around the San Jose Bay Area( It is officially San Jose now since it,not San Francisco, is the largest city in the area) and Sacramento (you must have a city Zip Code, Honda will not sell to people in the rural areas of Sacramento County because you are so far away from a hydrogen station you almost certainly have a bad owner experience).

 

[Oba]

Can't buy or lease the car in San Diego CA nor Fresno CA nor Eureka CA.

You can buy in Los Angeles County,Orange County, the counties around the San Jose Bay Area( It is officially San Jose now since it,not San Francisco, is the largest city in the area) and Sacramento (you must have a city Zip Code, Honda will not sell to people in the rural areas of Sacramento County because you are so far away from a hydrogen station you almost certainly have a bad owner experience).

Isn't there a fool cell station down there in San Diego ? Did Honda not get the memo or maybe they don't like Sea World?

 

[stopcrazypp]

Isn't there a fool cell station down there in San Diego ? Did Honda not get the memo or maybe they don't like Sea World?

They might also limit it by dealers willing to participate. So if San Diego doesn't have a Honda dealer that wants to offer the car, you probably won't get one.

 

[RobStark]

Isn't there a fool cell station down there in San Diego ? Did Honda not get the memo or maybe they don't like Sea World?

There is one and only one station in San Diego in the neighborhood of Carmel Valley at the Northern border of the city.

I guess neither Honda,Toyota,nor Hyundai consider that good enough for a satisfactory owner experience.

 

[30seconds]

How / where are you supposed refill this?

 

[RobStark]

Honda Clarity goes on sale in Japan, but only 200 units a year

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/03/11/honda-clarity-japan-only-200-units/

 

[anticitizen13.7]

Honda Clarity goes on sale in Japan, but only 200 units a year

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/03/11/honda-clarity-japan-only-200-units/

200 units a year? Honda is a master of mass manufacturing, yet they continually move slower than sludge on anything that isn't a VTEC engine.

That makes the Model X ramp look positively ludicrous speed.

 

[hiroshiy]

Lease to government agencies and businesses only this year.

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Japanese article, Honda CEO confirmed that they will put higher priority on PHEVs over FCVs and BEVs.

 

[tftf]

The article says absolutely nothing about their plans for BEVs, only FCEVs.

Maybe you should read their official PR - or what I have been saying since 2015:

Honda Clarity Series brings EV, PHEV to hydrogen fuel cell model

Honda Clarity FCEV revealed!

There will be three Clarity variants (similar to what Hyundai is doing with the Ioniq): BEV, PHEV and FC...

2017 Honda Clarity – Clean Vehicles | Honda

Meaning the BEV will likely be on sale before the Model3.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

Maybe you should read their official PR - or what I have been saying since 2015:

Honda Clarity Series brings EV, PHEV to hydrogen fuel cell model

Meaning the BEV will likely be on sale before the Model3.

There's a big catch though. From the Autoblog article:

Honda confirmed today that all-electric and plug-in hybrid versions of the Clarity will be joining the hydrogen car in 2017.

As we know, the hydrogen model will only be sold in areas where refueling is possible, and that means California and, at some point, the Northeastern US. Honda said the electric version will first be available in the EV-friendly state of California and the company will explore the business case from there. The PHEV will be sold in all 50 states.

It will arrive sometime in 2017. You can only buy it initially if you live in California.

The fully electric Clarity is unlikely to be a very compelling BEV, because it was designed from the start to be a Fuel Cell car. Everything from the front engine bay to the dual Hydrogen tank layout is designed to accommodate a gas/liquid fuel system.

Also:

The third vehicle in the Clarity series, the Clarity Plug-In Hybrid, will launch in all 50 states later in 2017 and will be the volume leader in the series, seamlessly combining an all-electric driving range in excess of 40 miles with a hyper-efficient gasoline-hybrid extended range mode.

Honda's efforts for the mass-market are towards plug-in Hybrids.

This will the production expression of the AC-X concept from 5 years ago in Tokyo: Honda AC-X Concept - Auto Shows

Expect 40-50 miles of BEV range, and 600+ miles of highway cruising using a direct-injected 2.0L Atkinson iVTEC motor. In the Honda system, the 2.0L engine can bypass the electrical systems and directly drive the wheels when it is most efficient to do so.

Clarity will be very good at what it is intended to do.

It will not be a Model 3 competitor, nor is it meant to be.

 

[tftf]

Clarity will be very good at what it is intended to do.

It will not be a Model 3 competitor, nor is it meant to be.

If the Clarity achieves close to or above 40 miles of range as discussed in the links it will indeed be an interesting PHEV entry (basically double the range of the upcoming Prius Prime).

I didn't write that the Clarity BEV will be a direct Model3 competitor, it is a bigger sedan.

We will see about the BEV range. I simply wrote that it will go on sale before Tesla's Model3 is ready - adding to many BEVs coming from virtually all car makers before 2020. So there will be indirect competition for the Model3 since I don't think Tesla can sell that car in volume and in low-end configs before 2019-2020.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

I didn't write that the Clarity will be a direct Model3 competitor, it is a bigger car. We will see about the range. I wrote that it will go on sale before Tesla's Model3 is ready.

And I wrote that the big caveat is that we don't know when it will arrive in 2017, and that initial customers will have to live in California (no definite plans to offer elsewhere in USDM).

Potentially going on sale before Model 3 is irrelevant, given the limited geographic scope of sale and vague launch time frame.

If the Clarity achieves close to or above 40 miles of range it will indeed be an interesting PHEV entry (basically double the range of the upcoming Prius Prime).

The PHEV Clarity will destroy the Prius if the cargo capacity can match or exceed Prius.

Honda's dual-motor hybrid system is superior to anything Toyota offers. Honda's problem has been packaging. The Accord Hybrid, which uses the dual-motor system, has limited trunk space and lacks a fold-down second row to pass through long items.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Maybe you should read their official PR - or what I have been saying since 2015:

Honda Clarity Series brings EV, PHEV to hydrogen fuel cell model

Honda Clarity FCEV revealed!

There will be three Clarity variants (similar to what Hyundai is doing with the Ioniq): BEV, PHEV and FC...

2017 Honda Clarity – Clean Vehicles | Honda

Meaning the BEV will likely be on sale before the Model3.

Wait, you are bringing up a dead thread from almost half a year ago and using today's article as a rebuttal? An article almost half a year later does not change the fact that the original article you linked back in October last year did not mention their plans for BEVs. And the current article is still extremely vague as to the details.

It may turn out the same way as the Ioniq that you hyped so much and ended up as a complete disappointment.

And given now that we know the reservation numbers of the Model 3, Tesla has absolutely nothing to worry about in terms of demand.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

If the Clarity achieves close to or above 40 miles of range as discussed in the links it will indeed be an interesting PHEV entry (basically double the range of the upcoming Prius Prime).

I didn't write that the Clarity BEV will be a direct Model3 competitor, it is a bigger sedan.

We will see about the BEV range. I simply wrote that it will go on sale before Tesla's Model3 is ready - adding to many BEVs coming from virtually all car makers before 2020. So there will be indirect competition for the Model3 since I don't think Tesla can sell that car in volume and in low-end configs before 2019-2020.

You're the only person who can continue to talk about competition after 400k Model 3 reservations. Just because a vehicle comes with a plug, doesn't mean it's competition for Tesla...anymore than ICE vehicles that won't be cross-shopped.

 

[derekt75]

[...]
The PHEV Clarity will destroy the Prius if the cargo capacity can match or exceed Prius.
[...]

Why do you say that?
So far, Prius has been "destroying" (5X?) the Chevy Volt in sales. Granted the cargo capacity in Prius is way better than in Volt. but it seems to me that even with the same or bigger cargo capacity, it wouldn't be destroying Prius.

Any word on the MSRP of the PHEV Clarity?

Regardless, I'm glad to see that Honda plans to make a PHEV and that they recognize that its sales will dwarf the sales of the HFCV.

 

[lklundin]

Honda Clarity goes on sale in Japan, but only 200 units a year

Considering that hydrogen fuel cells are bad for cars in several fundamental ways, only 200 per year makes sense.

Except, why make them at all?

 

[anticitizen13.7]

Why do you say that?
So far, Prius has been "destroying" (5X?) the Chevy Volt in sales. Granted the cargo capacity in Prius is way better than in Volt. but it seems to me that even with the same or bigger cargo capacity, it wouldn't be destroying Prius.

Any word on the MSRP of the PHEV Clarity?

Regardless, I'm glad to see that Honda plans to make a PHEV and that they recognize that its sales will dwarf the sales of the HFCV.

Maybe not "destroy" in terms of sales numbers, but "destroy" in terms of being a better overall car.

It's like Civic vs. Corolla. They sell in roughly equal numbers, but the Civic is clearly a superior vehicle in terms of powertrain, handling, and interior quality. The Corolla has an outdated engine, mediocre design, inferior suspension, and basically has nothing going for it except reliability.

Toyota is great at making reliable appliance cars. They are not so good at making cars that handle or perform all that well. It is probable that the Honda Clarity PHEV will be more fun to drive, more efficient, and more pleasant inside than a Prius.

The Volt could never outsell the Prius because it's just not as flexible. The first Volt could only seat 2 people in the rear. Even the new Volt is tight in the back due to the large center tunnel. The Volt's hatch doesn't hold as much as a Prius. Volt just doesn't match up to the Prius in terms of utility.

The question for me is whether Honda can get the packaging right. If the Clarity PHEV is cramped and has low cargo volume, it will struggle against the Prius. A family hatchback has to work well for its intended purpose.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Maybe not "destroy" in terms of sales numbers, but "destroy" in terms of being a better overall car.

The Honda Accord PHEV wasn't that bad of a car either, but it sold horribly (the limited trunk space you mentioned might be the issue). Honda just seems to be a miss in terms of their hybrids and plug-ins. Out of the Japanese brands, people just flock to Toyota and the Prius brand.

 

[RobStark]

The Honda Accord PHEV wasn't that bad of a car either, but it sold horribly (the limited trunk space you mentioned might be the issue). Honda just seems to be a miss in terms of their hybrids and plug-ins. Out of the Japanese brands, people just flock to Toyota and the Prius brand.

It was horribly overpriced.

Like the Volt, the first edition should have gone to the premium brand( Cadillac or Acura).

As cost come down put the powertrain in the mass market brand.

The Honda Clarity should be an Acura Clarity with some styling cues from the (hybrid) NSX.