Hong Kong Tesla Model S Charging Standard

[waidy]

Thanks Waidy for the links. I wonder if these or similar boxes are available in Hong Kong?
And thanks Lerxt for the reassurance. That gives me some hope the additional cost would not be too significant. When you said "mount a wall connector", is it like one of those in the links Waidy posted? I wonder if your cost was much lower because it was viewed as an electrical job just like any other vs. an EV job by the EV "specialists" like EVPower. On the one hand, the car is a big investment and it might make sense to spend a bit more for the peace of mind from hiring someone who knows about EVs. But on the other hand, I can't help but think these guys are gouging EV buyers -- isn't a 40A wire a 40A wire regardless of what it's used for?

I don't know how handy you are. You could make your own. I have 4 EVSEs + a hand full of 240V outlets and conversion cables in my garage. One of the EVSE (75Amp) is DiY project. Check out OpenEVSE page for ordering information. You may email and ask them to make you a unit if you don't want to do it. There is pricing information in one of the link. My 75Amp Open EVSE works great!!

 

[markwj]

I was waiting for Tesla to formally announce this, but it seems that the news has been given to several Tesla owners already and is now public knowledge.

This is what we now know Tesla's strategy for Hong Kong is, and I have updated the first post of this thread appropriately:

1. Car side is European style socket (IEC62196)
2. Cars will be Hong Kong specification (which may or may not differ from European cars)
3. Charging port is at the rear left hand side of the car
4. Cars will be delivered with a wall mounted medium-power-wall-charger (similar to HPWC, but 10A through 40A)
5. There will be no mobile adaptor provided by Tesla in Hong Kong market
6. There is no 40A-80A HPWC available yet, although it is promised for later in 2014.

Tesla will not be providing any support for the BS1363 13A socket in Hong Kong.

Here is my opinion, which I have already shared directly with Tesla:

Attn: Jerome Guillen

I understand from your Hong Kong team that Tesla will not be providing any support for the BS1363 13A socket in Hong Kong.

Quite frankly, that is a mistake. It will lead to bad press, upset owners, cancelled orders, and a strong negative on the ownership experience.

I apologise for the length of this eMail. The short story is that I think your proposal of providing 32A HPWC for home use is a good idea, but you should offer a Mobile Connector style option using BS1363 - and that connector should only be provided to customers who sign a waiver and agree to follow the Hong Kong EMSD requirements and only use the connector on BS1363 sockets installed and dedicated to EV charging. If you are really concerned with suitability of this, then de-rate the connector to 10A. But, please, at least offer some support for public charging in Hong Kong.

Long Story:

Hong Kong currently has over 1,000 charging points. As of today, 992 of those are BS1363. The remaining are Chademo and Tesla HPC. There are essentially zero Mennekes style sockets available for public charging. So, in reality when you are saying no support for BS1363, you are saying no support for public charging in Hong Kong. No support at all. Roughly the equivalent of refusing support for J1772 in USA, Chademo in Japan, or 3 phase in Europe.

Putting aside the dubious usefulness of a 2 hour charge at 13A while visiting a shopping centre, there is a real use for BS1363 13A charges of 10hours or longer (either overnight at home, or during the day at the office). While 32A would be preferable, BS1363 13A is cheap, simple and universally available (and gives a 25+KWh top-up in 10 hours).

From a safety history point of view, there are currently 500+ EVs in Hong Kong, which have been safely charging on BS1363 13A for three years or more. Dozens of your own Tesla Roadster owners plug in and charge here at public BS1363 outlets every day. A large number of those would not be owners without the BS1363 charging option.

From a technical point of view, I understand the safety concerns. There are two sorts of BS1363 sockets available in Hong Kong today:

1. Private sockets on the walls of homes, offices and garages. These often use the shared ring-main approach, and the wiring and quality of socket may be a concern.
2. Public charging stations, which follow the EMSD (Government department here responsible for this) standards (published at this link). These use dedicated cables and 1-to-1 radial circuits, protected by RCDs and rated to 16A. The vast majority (>90%) of these are installed and run either by the government EMSD itself, or by the two electrical utility companies.

I agree that charging at generic BS1363 sockets may be potentially unsafe (depending on the quality of the wiring, and other loads on the same ring main). But, I disagree that charging at EMSD compliant charging sockets should be considered in any way unsafe - and all public charging sockets follow those requirements. The government is quite clear. The EMSD requirements are the statutory requirements and general guidelines for installation of charging facilities for electric vehicles (EV) in Hong Kong.

The proposal I have heard of providing HPWC stations limited to 32A, for home charging is a good one. There is little extra complexity with installing a 16A/32A circuit vs a 13A BS1363 socket in a garage / outside wall. For customers who can charge at home, this is a fantastic solution.

For public charging, I strongly suggest Tesla offer a Mobile Connector style option using BS1363 - and that connector should only be provided to customers who sign a waiver and agree to follow the EMSD requirements and only use the connector on BS1363 sockets installed and dedicated to EV charging. If you are really concerned with suitability of this, then de-rate the connector to 10A. But, please, at least offer some support for public charging in Hong Kong.

Tesla is obviously playing it safe here, concerned about charging stations fires. Sure, the 13A sockets get hot, and some have been shown to melt. Some of the sockets I've seen in home garages are truly scary. But, the government EMSD have certified and approved these public charging station sockets for Electric Vehicle charging and deployed 1,000 of them around Hong Kong (half of which have been deployed by the electrical companies themselves - CLP and HKE). It really seems crazy to me that the government and two power companies are saying that these are safe and approved, but Tesla is saying not. I've been charging my roadster at these stations for the past three years, and I know of several owners who use them every day for 8-to-10 hours continuously without issue.

On the other hand, at the moment Tesla is supply-constrained, so a few hundred cars in Hong Kong make little difference to them.

Anyway, the good news is that we will get a much better home solution bundled with the car (I think MPWC is a good name - Medium Power Wall Charger, as low is typically household 10A/13A, medium is 32A-40A, and high is up to 80A). Costs for a 13A vs 16A/32A cable in a home garage should be almost the same (and if you really don't want to spend much - HK$50 to put a BS1343 plug on your MPWC and hang it off the wall next to your socket and charge at 10A).

If you buy a third party EVSE from an OEM, or build one yourself ( :scared: ), you'll need a IEC62196 connection to the Tesla Model S. Without a mobile connector or J1772 adaptor, direct IEC62196 is the only way.

The bad news is that today there is no support for the 1,000+ charging stations around Hong Kong. The recent policy address noted that there is a target for 100 32A public charging stations in Hong Kong (and I am told that places like IFC already have Mennekes IEC62196 in place). Discussions regarding the FRT exemption brought up a comment from EPD that Hong Kong has not decided on the socket/system to use for medium power charging yet (with Europe, USA and Japan all using different systems). It would be wonderful if Hong Kong standardised on IEC62196, and upgrades the existing BS1343 stations to IEC62196 32A single phase (which can provide a reasonable charge in 2 to 3 hours). So, short term this is terrible news, but longer term standardising the car connector on IEC62196 could really be a good solution.

- - - Updated - - -

And the Hong Kong website has been updated. It now says:

Model S comes with the necessary equipment to charge at home or on the road.
* Vehicle charger
* 40 amp wall connector

Dual Chargers

* Outfit Model S with a second onboard charger for up to twice the standard rate of charge, up to 100 kilometers of range per hour of charge, when connected to an 80 amp power source.

80A Wall Connector (preorder)

* Designed to mimic the fluid, futuristic design of Model S, the 80 amp Wall Connector is the fastest, easiest way to charge at home. The 80 amp Wall Connector does not require Dual Chargers, but it will not reach its maximum 80 amp charging capability without them. This wall connector is under development and is expected to ship in late 2014.

There are quite a few subtle changes there. My comments are:

• to charge at home or on the road - without a mobile connector, I think not.
• Dual chargers now listed as only useful for cases when connected to an 80 amp power source - three phase not mentioned.
• Preorder for HPWC.
• No mention of 3 phase in specifications.
• They are still listing mobile connector available under specifications.

Considering how long we have been waiting, and that people were asked to confirm their cars a month ago, this is a pretty weak web site update.

 

[KingKitega]

I've been told no plans for 3-phase charging atm... Clearly they think the strategy is owners will charge at home and single phase would be plenty provided they are allowed to install the MPWC.

We are in the midst of finalization on the installation guide and will release that as soon as we can. It is possible that we could release a 3-phase wall connector in the future (dependant on demand), but at present times we will be moving forward with a Single-Phase Wall Mounted Connector that will be provided with each Model S at delivery.

 

[Lerxt]

Thanks very much for giving us so much info in your post Mark.

Though in reality this has no effect on me since I have a good charging solution, I am very disappointed that Tesla will have a HK specific solution and it will not involve being able to plug into a BS1363 socket. I am disappointed enough to consider cancelling my order until they fix this error. I am not spending $750k on a car that I will not be able to sell if I need and the reality is that not supporting BS1363 will make the car impossible for the majority of potential owners.

Where can I get the email address for Jerome Guillen?

 

[Vmax]

Mark, your efforts to write directly to Tesla about the charging issue is highly appreciated.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Wouldn't it be possible to buy a European portable EVSE with an IEC62196 connection for the car, and support for the BS1363 socket? I guess the problem is that BS1363 is a British standard. Is there such a thing as a IEC62196 compatible portable EVSE?

 

[AppleFan]

I 150% agree with Mark's email and want to extend my utmost and sincere gratitude to him for raising the issue with Tesla. Not supporting BS1363 is bound to significantly hamper prospective buyers' interest in Tesla or even EVs in general. What Mark suggests basically gives us the best of both worlds: faster and safer charging at home and the convenience of public charging (using the mobile connector). If it's a cost issue, make the mobile connector an option and have a tag on the mobile connector in large bold letters that it is not meant to be used for longer than X hours.

 

[LuckyLuke]

I'm sorry to jump in since I'm not from HK, but wouldn't it be possible to just get a EU UMC (or generic schuko-type2 charger cable like mennekes/lapp/ratio/etc brands that exist in the market) and use a good quality UK-EU adapter? Similar to this:

 

[Lerxt]

You are right LL, but the thing I'm concerned about is your average buyer may be upset at having to buy an aftermarket anything after spending so much. I think Tesla really needs to take its HK buyers seriously in this matter.

 

[markwj]

Plenty of OEM options to consider, one of which is to simply put a BS1363 plug on the MPWC that comes with the car. At least the car side socket and protocol are standard.

 

[Vmax]

The risk of anything going wrong because we start fiddling with our "own" adapter solutions is much higher than Tesla is giving us a proper way to plug into a BS1363 socket.

 

[Cosmacelf]

I agree guys, if there are perfectly viable third party options, just buy them. Even here in North America, we've had to make our own adapters for various types of electrical sockets. Buying a commercial EVSE with a manufactured adapter isn't a problem at all.

For those that know, can you post a link to some EVSEs that would work?

 

[waidy]

Plenty of OEM options to consider, one of which is to simply put a BS1363 plug on the MPWC that comes with the car. At least the car side socket and protocol are standard.

Accessory Tracker | Plug In America has a list of EVSE manufacturers with link to the product sites. In additions, you may chose to get the US version of UMC and cut both end to wire to your favorite connector. I have two Jesla which are Tesla UMCs with its proprietary connector cut off and wires a J1772 connector to charge my 2 Rav4EVs.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Waidy, that link isn't very useful. None of the listed chargers are compatible with the Model S European charge port which is what is used in HK.

 

[waidy]

Waidy, that link isn't very useful. None of the listed chargers are compatible with the Model S European charge port which is what is used in HK.

My impression is, some HK folks want to know what are available so they can do their own cut and wire.

- - - Updated - - -

Waidy, that link isn't very useful. None of the listed chargers are compatible with the Model S European charge port which is what is used in HK.

By the way, "chargers" is a wrong word since the charger is in the car. It's EVSE or charging station.

 

[Lerxt]

I really appreciate the helpful suggestions that people are offering here. My feeling is that Tesla should be looking after the buyers of its $100,000 usd vehicle and not putting people in a position where they have to wire their own plug. This is something the general public will never accept when looking for a car to buy.

 

[Alipapa]

Model S being not compatible with most if not all of the charging station in HK is ridiculous!

What have HK Tesla done for the past years? shouldn't they acknowledge and solve this problem when they start collecting deposit?

Eventually,I hope most of the charging station will be Tesla friendly as Model S is soon to be the best selling EV in HK

 

[miimura]

If Tesla has already said that the vehicle connector is IEC62196 (commonly referred to Mennekes or Type 2) then it is only logical that they should put the EU 3 phase on-board chargers. If the car will only have single phase on-board chargers, then it should be like what Tesla has stated for Japan - RHD, single phase, and the Tesla proprietary vehicle inlet. Mixing a Type 2 inlet and single phase on-board chargers is simply illogical.

 

[LuckyLuke]

It's not that illogical, the EU chargers are very versatile and besides three phase they can also accept 40A single phase per charger. So 80A single phase for dual chargers would be theoretically possible.
There is a French forum member that has successfully tested this up to 62A single phase:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...ison-(wallbox)?p=588802&viewfull=1#post588802

 

[markwj]

I've updated the first post in this thread to show what we now know as certain.

Also updated is the description of three phase power in Hong Kong. It is 380V (4 wire). The three phase is arranged as a 4 wire supply (3 phases plus neutral) so that 220V (to neutral) can be obtained from each phase.

(thanks, Vmax, for clarification)