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Hong Kong Tesla Model S Charging Standard

Discussion in 'Hong Kong' started by markwj, Mar 11, 2014.

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  1. Vmax

    Vmax Member

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    Many potential buyers won't have the possibility to install a Tesla wall unit at their nightly carpark, and might only be allowed to install a BS1363 socket if any socket at all.
     
  2. Lerxt

    Lerxt Active Member

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    Im talking to Linda tomorrow too so hopefully we will have more info for us all.
     
  3. sonywong

    sonywong Member

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    One of my friends just requested a refund after Tesla HK told him NO SUPERCHARGER UNTIL NEXT YEAR
     
  4. Lerxt

    Lerxt Active Member

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    I can understand his frustration as the goal posts keep on moving and Tesla is losing a bit of credibility here. Having said that, the only people no supercharging would affect are those with only the use of BS1363 plugs...funny that.
     
  5. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    +1

    I think the decision to not support BS1363 is just plain wrong, but I also think the included-with-car 10A-40A wall charger solution is a fantastic offering for owners with a wall to hang it on. If you don't have such a wall, and would only have public BS1363 for 3 hours at a time, then perhaps the Model S ownership experience is not going to be amazing anyway. I do feel bad for the people who work at places like science park (with dozens of BS1363 sockets lined up ready for you to charge all day long while you are at work).
     
  6. waidy

    waidy Member

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    After tapering down a project, I am looking into an 80Amp EVSE with IEC 62196 for my sister's garage in Hong Kong. Reading the wiki page gets me more confuse on the number of types that are available for IEC 62196. A friend of mine refers me to Dostar supplying SAE J1772 Type 1 to IEC 62196 Type 2 EV charge plug, View J1772 to IEC 62196, Dostar Product Details from Zhangjiagang Uchen Technology Engine Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com

    My plan is to either
    • DIY 80Amp OpenEVSE (need to source an 80Amp contactor) and wire an IEC 62196 cable and plug assembly; or
    • Purchase of a 80Amp EVSE without the J-assembly and do my own wiring using an IEC 62196 cable and plug assembly
    According to the above webpage, it's cable of 16A/32A/70A @240V charging. Anyone here know of a 80A 62196 assembly for purchase?

    Also, is there any special requirement of GFI in Hong Kong?
     
  7. arg

    arg Supporting Member

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    That's a type1 to type2(male) cable - neither end of which is useful to you when interfacing to the Tesla. You want either a type2(female) plug on a captive cable, or you want a type2(female) panel-mount receptacle on your EVSE and use a type2 male-female cable (which you probably want to carry in the car for use at public charge points anyhow).

    There's no such thing as an 80A 62196 connector/cable. They typically come in 16A, 32A or (rarely) 63A, single or 3-phase. For a Tesla with twin chargers, you normally want 32A 3-phase (ie. 4 current-carrying cores in the cable and 4 current-carrying pins on the connector).

    It is not at all clear how (or if) Tesla achieves the 80A single-phase capability claimed on the spec sheet for European cars. According to IEC62196 (I'm reading the BS EN 62196-2:2012 version), the 63A 3-phase connector is rated for 70A single phase, and the single phase configuration uses only 2 of the 4 contacts (presumably the rating is based partly on temperature rise and so you can afford to drive two of the pins harder if you are not using the other two). However, this doesn't appear to be how Tesla is using the connector: it is believed that the car has in effect 3 separate chargers, one per phase, and that the UMC when used with the blue adapter achieves 32A single-phase on single-charger cars by simply wiring the phase pins in parallel - the car doesn't care whether it gets 3 separate phase inputs or 3 inputs all the same phase. As the cars as they are built at the moment, it is reported that you only get 32A (temporarily reduced to 26A) on a single-phase EVSE wired according to the standards if you have 'dual chargers', and 16A (temporarily 13A) if you have 'single chargers'.

    Since the 80A capability is outside the standards (ie. Tesla-specific), one possibility is that it relies on the fact that the car-side connectors are not in fact IEC62196 - they are Tesla's proprietary connector with longer pins to allow supercharging, while remaining interoperable with standard connectors. So Tesla could build an EVSE using the Supercharger connectors and achieve a higher AC rating (though you would have thought that they would rate this at 32*3 = 96A to match the charger rating when used on 3-phase). Or possibly the 80A is just a carry-over from the USA spec sheet and Tesla haven't yet determined how they are going to deliver high-current single phase.

    Anyhow, either of your plans look like leading you into uncharted waters....

    The only straightforward options (whether OpenEVSE or off-the-shelf) are single phase up to 32A (7kW) or 3-phase for any power higher than that.
     
  8. Lerxt

    Lerxt Active Member

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    So I talked with Tesla this morning and it was clear that BS1363 will definitely not be supported at this time, even as low as 10 amps. I made the point that some BS1363 installations are set up for EV's under the appropriate guidelines. I mentioned the waiver idea as well as the fact that many will use a dodgy mainland aftermarket cables that will create the same effect, if it catches on fire, as a high quality a Tesla solution without the control of the product. I doubt it will influence them, the decision must have been made at a higher level, even though the previous point will negate what they want to protect against.

    I suggested that they release the charging info in Chinese and this idea went over very well and will be passed on.

    We also discussed 3 phase charging. My feeling from this is that they are working for a solution that does this but it's away off and there are no guarantees.

    Finally, superchargers are well underway and consideration is being made for the fact that they will be used differently to the way that they are used in other places. They will be centrally located. I clearly pointed out the fact that the BS1363 victims will be relying on superchargers largely. Apparently CLP and HKE are likely going to the type 2 plug for their 32A installations. ( evidence?). I will have more info in a few days about this, hopefully.
     
  9. Vmax

    Vmax Member

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    #109 Vmax, Mar 27, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2014
    Just finished my call with Linda from Tesla headquarters as well.
    Lerxt did summarise their position already above. Following some more statements Linda made, which I feel are interesting for us:

    - They feel the construction of the BS1363 socket is not robust enough for Tesla charging and are not willing to compromise safety and charging experience, even it might bite into their sales. She convinced me, that this is the right approach
    - Nevertheless, they are testing 3rd party mobile connectors and might comment on their use at a later stage
    - Tesla is in touch with HKE and CLP about upgrading existing BS1363 sockets. I did not ask what kind of sockets exactly.
    - They are looking into 3-phase charging for HK. Suggest more of us email Tesla and emphasise the importance of 3-phase.
    - Superchargers are definitely coming our way. HK will be the first metropolitan area to install Superchargers in the world
    - Charging at Superchargers will be free
     
  10. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Well-Known Member

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    That's good news. Would be interesting to find out which 3rd party mobile connector they are testing...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Here you go. A commercial portable charging system that plugs into the Tesla and provides a British BS1343 plug interface:

    http://messe.mennekes.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Downloads/Prospekte_UK/Charging%20cable%20mode%202.pdf




     
  11. Vmax

    Vmax Member

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    #111 Vmax, Mar 27, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2014
    Great research Cosmacelf.
    With all the safety features, sounds very promising. Might be the way out for people with access to BS1363 only.

    I contacted the sales representative for the Hong Kong region from Mennekes in Germany already, to check where and/or how to buy. Will inform you once I get a reply.
     
  12. sonywong

    sonywong Member

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    I need one and maybe we can organize a group purchase to save some shippings
     
  13. Lerxt

    Lerxt Active Member

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    It's interesting how this unit monitors the wall socket plug temperature and protects the system. Why on earth can't Tesla do this? It irks me that they are not going to provide one of these.
     
  14. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    Looks good, but can we carry on this discussion here:

    BS1363 to IEC62196 220V 13A portable EVSE

    That thread is about this particular problem (BS1363 to IEC62196).
     
  15. waidy

    waidy Member

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    Yes, I posted the wrong URL. I do need a 62196 male to plug into MS's inlet. Thanks for pointing this out.

    I see. I now know to get a 3-phase EVSE (GFI on all legs/phase) so to charge the MS in 3-phase. Thanks for the info.

    [email protected] 3-phase would be 21kW. This will make me happy. Yes, OpenEVSE 3-phase is now my plan. Thanks for the clarification. Much appreciated.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The US version of Model S (at least the one I have), with the latest SW upgrade, redeuces the current (amperage) if it detects overheat while charging.
    I added thermal protection management at the charge inlet on both of my 2012 Rav4EV (Tesla inside). This upgrade will pause the charging session should the temperature at the inlet reaches 158 degree F; and resumes charging when it drops below 154 degree F.
     
  16. waidy

    waidy Member

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  17. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    I just did an interesting test on my Roadster today, at TsimShaTsui Ocean Centre.

    I charged for 110minutes at 220V 10A, using the mobile charger provided by Tesla for the roadster. Standard mode SOC was 77% and ideal range 232km at the start of the charge. SOC was 82% and ideal range 249km at the end of the charge. So, let's call that +5% SOC and 17km after almost 2 hours. About 4kWh (HK$4 raw electricity cost) put into the battery in 2 hours. My drive to and from TsimShaTsui was around 32km.

    Better than nothing, but not much practical use.

    P.S. I usually charge at 13A, and the plug is usually hot to the touch after a few hours of charging. This time I dialled it down to 10A, and the plug wasn't even warm.
     
  18. waidy

    waidy Member

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    Would it be possible to measure the temperature at the outlet on each of the pin (just point the laser at the pin location). I have a Non-Contact Infrared Thermometer with Laser Targeting in which I use. It will be interesting to see the temperature different when charging at 13A and 10A, and to see which pin is the hottest, after 2-3 hours of charging.
     
  19. Lerxt

    Lerxt Active Member

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    I talked to a technical guy at Tesla HK and they look like they are moving away from 13A plugs well and truly. They are aware of the temperature sensing cables and the issues we have brought up, but more interested in looking to the future. They have had talks with CLP and HKE and it seems they may install multi plug type charge stations at 32A ( the 100 we know about). They suggested they may sell or recommend a cable to use these chargers in the future if things fall into place. 3 phase is a distinct possibility down the track when the work is done on an appropriate unit. I think we need to forget about BS1363 and trust them, they have some good stuff in the pipeline.
     
  20. KingKitega

    KingKitega Member

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    Does anyone know if chademo adaptor needs the supercharging option unlocked?
     

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