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Hong Kong Tesla Model S Charging Standard

Discussion in 'Hong Kong' started by markwj, Mar 11, 2014.

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  1. Vmax

    Vmax Member

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    #41 Vmax, Mar 21, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2014
    I do agree, that safety is the most important issue and the loss of confidence due to safety issues would be worse than anything else.

    But still, this is a big disappointment to me and I believe most EV enthusiasts. Same as you, I will keep my order, as I will have a proper charging solution at home. However there will be too many "normal" users, who don't have the chance to install anything "special" at their carpark. If they could get an individual regular 13A socket, they are quite lucky already, but this is of no use now. The dominant apartment living in Hong Kong makes installing "special" charging solutions for individual carparks almost impossible on a broad scale.
    I don't know how the situation will be with the i3, but once this information gets to the public, that EVs can't be charged with a household socket in HK, sales will nosedive here and our Teslas considered exotics. The resale value will be nil. I know, that a 13A socket is not much of a use for charging while shopping, but still, how about hundreds of installations from the government and public carpark owners? It will take years, if they are willing at all, to upgrade them.
    I had such big hopes for EVs but in such situation, they stand no chance in HK.
     
  2. Lerxt

    Lerxt Active Member

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    #42 Lerxt, Mar 21, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2014
    I think this is a response to the Toronto fire, which apparently originated at the wall plug.

    Regardless, if it turns out you cannot use a normal 13A socket then the biggest damage to the Model S and Tesla in general, is perception. There is great power in the concept of " you can plug it in anywhere", despite the fact that you cannot refuel your ICE "anywhere".

    I wonder if you will be able to buy a mobile connector separately? I hope so because plenty of people have one now and many charging points need a cable. I wouldn't be surprised to see a situation where you are given a wall unit and with a cable attached in place of the mobile connector and you can elect to buy a mobile connector. It would be bad news for Tesla if they were forced to disallow 13A charging. What a hassle to have to uninstall your wall unit if you move.

    I noticed on the Charging forum that many US users have received a letter over the last few days to return their mobile connector and have it replaced with a new thermally protected adaptor. This would be a good solution.
     
  3. Vmax

    Vmax Member

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    The Toronto Tesla was not plugged in when it caught fire. So this can't be the decision for not allowing 13A household socket charging in HK.
     
  4. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    Selling an electric car in HK without the ability to charge from the most common outlet is plainly ridiculous. How exactly is the situation in HK different than UK? I can understand that there is some risk exposure from household outlets, but HK requirements for BS1363 electric vehicle charging are clearly laid out by the government. You must have a dedicated circuit with its own circuit breaker and earth leakage protective device in addition to the customary switch at the outlet. I can understand that Tesla might limit charging current to 10A or something similar as a buffer for potentially sketchy sockets, but dropping the Mobile Connector is significant. The only conceivable reason is regulatory. However, I don't see any reason the Mobile Connector is unsuitable based on EMSD requirements here.

    In any case, portable EVSE units are available from third parties so if Tesla fails to provide a Mobile Connector with the HK cars, there will be alternatives.
     
  5. KingKitega

    KingKitega Member

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    Got some further details from Tesla rep... I guess onus really is on those without a private parking space like myself to figure it out. Somewhat disappointed here. They also confirmed Twin Charger not going to be worth it without the HPWC.


     
  6. Lerxt

    Lerxt Active Member

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    I received a similar reply. No definitive mention about mobile connectors either.

    I personally think this is the key question and I have written to Tesla to get a definitive answer.
     
  7. waidy

    waidy Member

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    My plan would be doing a direct connect to the 3-phase box/EVSE. This way, there is no plug/receptacle involved.
     
  8. DITB

    DITB Charged.hk co-founder

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    If they don't supply the mobile connector with the car, but you can buy it in the online store in another market (i.e., it will soon be available in Mong Kok along with iPhone 6 and iPad 5), then Tesla Motors have dodged liability issues I guess.

    Still, if there is a fire related to charging electric cars, it will not take many minutes before it appears on Apple Daily and even all other media in HK. If that charger is plugged into a Tesla, that will be bad for Tesla, whether or not it was "legal", or supplied with the car.

    I expect Tesla to do all they can to come up with some solution - a totally fire proof mobile connector, with all kinds of load- and temperature protection.

    They could also get very aggressive on the super charger installations. Ironically, the market with the shortest driving distances, could be the one with most superchargers pr sold car!
     
  9. DITB

    DITB Charged.hk co-founder

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    I will promote Tesla for sure, by word of mouth as well as "show and tell" - but my friends and colleagues will laugh their butts off if they can quote stories like

    "Tesla car stuck on expressway because no-where to charge ah!"

    "No electric fuel for new electric cars, owners are furious and want their money back"

    Tesla reeeeally need to get this sorted before summer, or HK EV history could get real ugly, real quick!
     
  10. Vmax

    Vmax Member

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    I don't think many Superchargers will be installed here, because of our crazy land prices. Malls will be reluctant to install, as it is for one EV brand only.
     
  11. Vmax

    Vmax Member

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    The necessity to install something more powerful than a household socket at you your car park will dramatically narrow the customer base for Tesla. Hope they will find a way household sockets can be used.
     
  12. lx3h

    lx3h Charged.hk's Director of Education

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    So back to our supercharger discussion, Elon did say that charging for Model S from the superchargers will always be free, because it is included in the cost of the car. If you believe him, then there will surely be superchargers in Hong Kong, and from the other thread, I remember the number is 4.
     
  13. GSP

    GSP Member

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    #53 GSP, Mar 22, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2014
    If you don't want to spend HK$20-30k for faster charging, I suggest looking into mounting a wall box that is configured for 13 Amp charging in place of your existing outlet. That would not cost much, get rid of the safety issue with the household grade outlet, and still give the charge rate you were planning on.

    If Tesla's HK wall box can not be configured for 13 Amps, you could buy a third party wall box that can.

    In the US, Tesla's HPWC wall box can be configured for 40 A, 80 A, and several values in between by setting DIP switches. The UMC can be configured for 12 A to 40 A, by selecting different plug adapters.

    GSP
     
  14. Lerxt

    Lerxt Active Member

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    I'm paying $3000 to install 40A cable from a dedicated circuit breaker box about 6 meters to my car port. It originally included the red plug but now is just mounting the LPWC(?). This should allow me to charge at 32A without problem. Hopefully you can get a better quote.
     
  15. hiroshiy

    hiroshiy Supporting Member

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    So you named it as LPWC; :) Will that be HK specific part? What is your guess?
     
  16. AppleFan

    AppleFan Member

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    GSP, what is this wall box you mention? Is there a link (even if US) so I can visualize what you mean?

    Lerxt, can you confirm it was HK$3,000 and not HK$30,000? If it's HK$3,000, that's not bad at all and it's 32A to boot! Which vendor did you use?

    BTW, I noticed on the Tesla HK website, the HPWC has been renamed and it's now shown to be on preorder. (It might also be slightly cheaper but I'm not sure about the original price.)

    AppleFan
     
  17. KingKitega

    KingKitega Member

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    Yea they've update the design studio to show 40A wall connector included with car, but also says necessary equipment to charge on the road.. Wonder what that will be if UMC no longer included..
     
  18. waidy

    waidy Member

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    I don't know which one GSP is referring to, but there are plenty in US. Here is two to consider:
    60-48A Unit is $899. Hard wired, because it needs a 60A circuit.
    40-30A unit, with 14-50 cord and plug, is $644. Needs 40A circuit.
    HCS-60, 48A, 240V Charging, 25′ Rubber Over-molded Cord | Clipper Creek Vehicle Charging Station

    Another: Siemens Versicharge 30 Amp Nema-4 Indoor/Outdoor Electric Vehicle Charger - Bottom Fed-VC30BLKB at The Home Depot

    NEMA 14-50 plug/receptacle is rated for 40Amp load (require 50Amp breaker). I have several of these in my US house. I have also use NEMA 14-50 to charge my Rav4EV, LEAF, Tesla Model S. Very safe.

    Tesla also has a 14-50 adapter with use with their UMC.
     
  19. Lerxt

    Lerxt Active Member

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    #59 Lerxt, Mar 22, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2014
    It was $3000. I use a local Sai Kung registered electrician. It's not really a big job, the wiring is a simple job and takes half a day. Install a circuit breaker off the main fuse box, run 40A wire in a conduit, mount a wall connector and connect. It's not a $30k job.

    LPWC was my invention, and I notice that HPWC is not used on the HK website it says there is an 80kwh connector that is available for preorder for delivery late this year. The comment that it has necessary equipment to charge on the road could just be the onboard charger. They are avoiding mentioning the mobile connector.
     
  20. AppleFan

    AppleFan Member

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    Thanks Waidy for the links. I wonder if these or similar boxes are available in Hong Kong?
    And thanks Lerxt for the reassurance. That gives me some hope the additional cost would not be too significant. When you said "mount a wall connector", is it like one of those in the links Waidy posted? I wonder if your cost was much lower because it was viewed as an electrical job just like any other vs. an EV job by the EV "specialists" like EVPower. On the one hand, the car is a big investment and it might make sense to spend a bit more for the peace of mind from hiring someone who knows about EVs. But on the other hand, I can't help but think these guys are gouging EV buyers -- isn't a 40A wire a 40A wire regardless of what it's used for?
     

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