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How choose your charger?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Kirill Makarov, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. Kirill Makarov

    Kirill Makarov New Member

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    Aug 15, 2017
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    Location:
    Bay Area Oakland
    Welcome, all fans of electric transport. The main problem for today is the choice and the correct installation of the charger in your home. The choice of the shopping sites is great and varied, everyone chooses what he likes or reviews. I want to say what I faced. I live in Oakland and how any change in your home happened in terms of electricity supply such as an installation of a 240-volt outlet should be coordinated with the city's permit service. This indicates that your local electrician must, first of all, get permission from the city before installing or changing anything. The owner himself can not do this because he does not have the appropriate license C-10. Otherwise, it will not be legal and leads to criminal liability(six months). Therefore, after choosing an electrician, ask him or the company whether they register this project. After that, you will receive a calculation about the work ahead and if this company has experience with the granting of permission and subsequent inspection you will not have any problems. If there is a short circuit or an accidental electric shock, remember that the insurance company will not compensate you for the reason that there are no appropriate permits. And since the market is now popular for any handyman people, try to install a charger and then hide. From my practice after installation, no one takes the phone and the truth you will not find and how I will go to the company that does this and pay twice. I hope that all those present to learn from other people's mistakes. I wish everyone good luck and enjoyment from using EV.
     
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  2. Gtosnipey

    Gtosnipey Member

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    Las Vegas, Nv
    I'm one of the noobies that after all the research, looking at the Tesla site, etc still can't figure out exactly what I need to get installed lol. I am not going to buy the $500 wall charger, but want to have installed the next best thing. So I know we need a Nema 14-50, but what is the best voltage etc to have if you are getting the long range car. I know the info is somewhere in the form, but I haven't been able to piece it together. One of you beautiful strangers maybe can help? :) I want to get it installed prior to the car shipping.
     
  3. Hamilton C

    Hamilton C Member

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    Location:
    Skaneateles, New York 13152
    Wow! Talk about over reach regulation by the government - a licensed electrician yes, but having to get a permit from a government agency just to install a receptacle?

    Makes me feel glad to live out in the country of upstate NY. Yes, you are correct, a licensed electrician should do the job for proper insurance coverage. But fortunately getting a government permit for a single 240 volt receptacle is not required in our area. But, may be more common in highly urbanized areas and large cities.
     
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  4. Snerruc

    Snerruc Member

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    It is a circuit not just the receptacle. Both the receptacle and breaker should be heavy duty as this is a heavy,long duration load. Yes people have done it themselves, but Tesla warned me that if an improper installation damaged the battery, they could void the warranty.
     
  5. UrsS

    UrsS Member

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    Location:
    Placerville, CA
    Building codes are complicated and vary from community to community. I'm certainly not familiar with Oakland's code requirements. BUT to the best of my knowledge in California the homeowner is allowed to do such things as adding a receptacle in his/her house as long as it is done to code and inspected by the building inspector. (This is not legal advice, just check it out with your local building department.)
    And to the best of my knowledge Tesla will supply a charging cord with a NEMA 14-50 adapter. That plugs into any modern electric dryer outlet. But it is better to have a separate 10-50 receptacle with a 50A breaker.
     
  6. Dax279

    Dax279 Member

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    Location:
    Calgary
    Sorry I thought most dryer plugs are NEMA 14-30 and not 14-50?
     
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  7. KJD

    KJD Supporting Member

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    The Nema 14-50 outlet will have 240 volts. The circuit will have a 50 amp breaker and your charger will draw 40 amps max on that circuit.
    Details are here.
    FAQ: Home Tesla charging infrastructure Q&A
     
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  8. AlanSqB

    AlanSqB Dog Chauffeur

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    Fort Collins, CO
    In many areas if you live in a single family, detached dwelling you can apply for a permit and do the work yourself. You still have to meet all NEC requirements and some areas are stricter than others.

    Electrical and plumbing are two areas I think people get themselves into trouble with. If you are not comfortable doing the work, hire it out. A NEMA 14-50 "range" receptacle is more than sufficient for any existing EV. Just know that you must de-rate any circuit used for charging an EV by 20%. So a 14-50 outlet wired properly and connected to a 50 amp breaker will allow you to charge at 40 amps.

    IMHO you are going to get a better deal on a 14-50 installation than an EVSE installation as the receptacle is a common thing but the EVSE, especially Tesla branded, is still very "exotic".
     
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  9. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT Quickish

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    I'm not from Oakland, but I'd be surprised if anything more was needed than an electrician who follows the codes. Shouldn't need more paperwork than that.
     
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  10. Jason Bourne

    Jason Bourne Member

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    Location:
    Philly
    If you install a NEMA 14-50 outlet, it will be 240V and 50amps. For the long range Model3, this is perfect because the car can charge at 40amps, and you want the sustained load of the outlet/circuit to be 80% of the fuse rating (50amps). The standard range car charges at 32amps, so a 40amp breaker would be fine for that.

    With that outlet, you can plug in the Universal Mobile Connector (UMC) that comes with the car. If you leave the connector plugged in at home all the time, you will be driving around without a connector in your car so if you need to charge while you're out then you need to find a public Level2 charger or a Supercharger, since you won't be able to plug in to an outlet (unless you purchase a second UMC which is practically the same cost as a Tesla High Powered Wall Charger [HPWC] which is permanently installed/mounted at your home). So if you're comfortable with not having a charging connector with you, then no big deal. This is what I plan to do since I rarely travel farther than 50 miles a day.

    One thing you want to avoid over the long term in plugging in and removing the UMC from the NEMA 14-50 outlet repeatedly. You shouldn't do it every day because it'll wear do the contacts. Rarely/occassionally is OK, but you may wear out the receptacle a little faster than normal in which case you can just replace the receptacle like you would any other outlet in your home.
     
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  11. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    And that is exactly what almost every Model S and X owner does. With Tesla's range it's highly unlikely you would need to charge during the day unless you're on an out of town trip, but if you do, that's what J1772s are for (or superchargers if you happen to be near one). Where are you going to find a 240V outlet when you're driving around town anyway? The only time to take the UMC with you is on a trip, as you might need to plug into a hotel outlet (usually 120V) or RV park.

    The M in UMC is a capability, not a requirement.
     
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  12. Dynastar

    Dynastar Member

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    If you can wire a normal 120v outlet you can do a NEMA 14-50, it's just bigger with thicker wires. There's also many guides online. Just make sure it's properly permitted and inspected, both for safety and to ensure you're covered by your insurance if something goes wrong. When I added a 14-50 to my detached garage I had to do a lot of prep work, running new cable from the house and upgrading the panel in the garage. The inspector was very helpful, pointing out a few small errors I made and making sure everything was up to snuff.
     
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  13. Jason Bourne

    Jason Bourne Member

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    Running the wire might not be the most challenging part. Some homeowners might need to upgrade their service and/or add a subpanel like you did which can be tricky.
     
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  14. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    Correct. Dryers use NEMA 14-30. Electric ranges use 14-50
     
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  15. Gtosnipey

    Gtosnipey Member

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    Location:
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    Thank you, that was a perfect summary. In my garage, my wife had this line run by an electrician for the dryer inside. I'm not 100% what voltage or amps but they needed it for the dryer and I am guessing I can get a line extended from here or something. It's on the side I'm going to park on perfect location (I'm sure an electrician will tell me what I need to do).

    Because I will only be in this house for 4 years (through our son's middle school years) I didn't want to get a power wall and have it installed only to move to a new house. My daily commute is only about 8 miles round trip, so I will be leaving the UMC plugged in probably 90-95% of the time. Getting around Vegas I have never gone 300 miles in a day so we should be good to go.

    I appreciate all the advice, power wise and about removing the cord over and over. I didn't know that and probably would have been throwing it in the car constantly just to do it.
     

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  16. AlanSqB

    AlanSqB Dog Chauffeur

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    You will have to run new conduit. There won't be enough space left after what's already in that conduit to put another circuit for an EVSE.

    With such a short drive, you could try to get away with just 120v for now.
     
  17. Panhandler

    Panhandler Member

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    Location:
    Amarillo, Texas
    I have a Voltec 240 charger installed in my garage that I have used for the last 6 years with my Chevy Volt. Will I be able to use this charger with my Model 3? I assume that I will have to purchase an adapter since it has a different plug.
     
  18. AlanSqB

    AlanSqB Dog Chauffeur

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    The Model 3 will come with a J1772 adapter you can use with your EVSE. Nothing to do or buy!
     
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  19. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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    So I have fire coverage, a fire happens from my faulty wiring and breach of code, and I have no coverage for the fire loss because of an anticoncurrent causation clause that excludes my covered fire loss because it has an exclusion for code breaches? I guess you posted this without even doing one little bit of research since if you did, you would know that "some states, including California and Washington, have adopted a statutory or common law rule that insurance policies must provide coverage if the efficient proximate cause of loss is a covered peril. Courts in those jurisdictions have held that anticoncurrent causation clauses violate that rule, and therefore are unenforceable. Second, under the law of many states, an insurance policy must be interpreted in a manner that is consistent with the reasonable expectations of the policyholder. This doctrine is intended to compensate for the fact that most insurance policies are contracts of adhesion, drafted by the insurer and sold on a take it or leave it basis. Some courts, such as those in Mississippi, have concluded that anticoncurrent causation clauses are unenforceable because they defeat the policyholder's reasonable expectations of coverage when a covered peril is the proximate cause of loss. However, other courts, including those in Alaska, have found the clauses to be enforceable under the reasonable expectations doctrine. Those courts have concluded that the clauses are clear and unambiguous, and therefore policyholders could not reasonably expect coverage for risks excluded by them. Third, other courts which enforce these clauses do so under the laws of states which lack a proximate causation rule and which reject the reasonable expectations doctrine in favor of a rule that insurance policies are to be interpreted under the same rules as all other contracts. To these courts, anticoncurrent causation clauses are enforceable because they are clear and unambiguous, and entered into by parties who are free to contract as they wish. Not all property policies contain anticoncurrent causation clauses. Avoiding those provisions should be a high priority when selecting coverage."

    Don't believe what you read on the internet people, including what I write, because a lot of people post categorical statements that have no basis in fact, such as the one I quoted above. It's definitely good advice not to mess with your home wiring unless you know exactly what you are doing, and to always get permits when required, but if you do do it yourself, and your house burns down, you may have coverage despite what the OP wants you to believe. You buy insurance for negligence and stupidity -- and doing wiring yourself without doing it properly and with required permits is stupid and negligent, that's for sure.
     
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  20. Gtosnipey

    Gtosnipey Member

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    Do you think there's a big price point between having the 240v installed and a 120v? Would there be any reason not to get the higher voltage installed even with the shorter commute?
     

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