I am not sure that a staggered set up on an AWD car is the way to go. Have you checked this?
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How dumb are spacers?
- Thread starter Dolemite
- Start date
I am not sure that a staggered set up on an AWD car is the way to go. Have you checked this?
awedio_femi
Member
Bro, where have you been...it's 2020!
AWDs been having staggered setups for a minute!
I can vouch for this, I've used these spacers in the past with no hiccups. They know what they are doing they just need to polish ups their website a little hahaha
That's why I asked the question. My last AWD was an Evo X, and IIRC staggered was not recommended.
But that begs the question: is it OK to stagger the set up on an AWD Tesla Model 3 AWD?
On an ICE AWD setup, the front and rear need to spin at the same rpm, which means front and rear need to have the same OD. The trouble with staggered setups is that it is difficult to get the same exact OD, but it is possible.
With the Tesla having separate motors front and rear, they do not need to be the exact same diameter.
With the Tesla having separate motors front and rear, they do not need to be the exact same diameter.
lbowroom
Plaid, white on black, CF, 8/27/21, Track Pack
Yes, but all he’s talking about is changing the wheel offset with spacers, not the rolling diameter
vogz
Member
I've used wheel spacers up to 20mm on multiple cars for well over 100k miles. No issues whatsoever. Love the flush look without spending money on aftermarket wheels.
P-Lo801
Member
vogz
Member
Yes, I have 5mm front and 20mm rear on my P3D+. Car was new in Dec. 2019 so I only have about 5k miles on them. Also run rear spacers on my 03 911 Turbo and ran them on my 2011 Audi S4 for 9 years.
Gvardaman
Member
The ones offered by Porsche, from the factory, are very small and something their engineers have deemed to be within the acceptable tolerances for the suspension, steering and related components.
Porsche is not conservative about such things, they build their cars to be driven, hard. Launch control on a BMW is limited to, what, 15 times? Total?
On a Porsche, they say “as often as you want.” So when they make a spacer that is only 5mm, that’s what they can accept.
Spacers change the stability, change the stress loads, possibly compromise the wheel-to-hub mating surfaces, add unsprung weight and are not likely crash-tested on your car.
I had them on a car briefly, because I liked the look. After learning more, I opted to remove them. It is possible that, like many who have posted here, you can run them for a long time and not have any problems. Just think about what it is worth to you and consider the type of driving you are doing. Maybe call your insurance company and ask them if there are any issues if these are installed and there is an accident? Just to make sure they wouldn’t disallow your claim.
I am in the “yes, they are dumb” camp, but good luck and happy driving with whatever choice you make! (Sincerely.)
Porsche is not conservative about such things, they build their cars to be driven, hard. Launch control on a BMW is limited to, what, 15 times? Total?
On a Porsche, they say “as often as you want.” So when they make a spacer that is only 5mm, that’s what they can accept.
Spacers change the stability, change the stress loads, possibly compromise the wheel-to-hub mating surfaces, add unsprung weight and are not likely crash-tested on your car.
I had them on a car briefly, because I liked the look. After learning more, I opted to remove them. It is possible that, like many who have posted here, you can run them for a long time and not have any problems. Just think about what it is worth to you and consider the type of driving you are doing. Maybe call your insurance company and ask them if there are any issues if these are installed and there is an accident? Just to make sure they wouldn’t disallow your claim.
I am in the “yes, they are dumb” camp, but good luck and happy driving with whatever choice you make! (Sincerely.)
Do you notice any difference in feel? Or actual performance? Sometimes those are separate things...I have many spacers for the Model 3. 3mm, 5mm, 8mm, 15mm, and 20mm. None of my wheels have fallen off yet
MasterC17
Active Member
No, I wouldn't say so. I just use them to space the wheels appropriately. With 3 degrees of camber, 18x8" ET35 wheels look pretty silly with no spacers. Same with the stock 19"s. The 19x9.5 ET40 wheels fit better with a small spacer.
That's just not true, Porsche has used up to 30mm spacers as far as I know, but they may have gone larger. Currently they are using 17mm spacers on the 911. By your rational, this would mean that if it's good enough for Porsche, they are good enough for other vehicles.
You got rid of your spacers because of fear of the unknown. Spacers have the exact same effect as lowering wheel offset, which, technically does have some steering/suspension/stability effects, but realistically offers small effects, and presents no added risk.
Again, this all assumes that (1) high quality spacers are used and (2) they are retorqued after ~50 miles of driving.
It does widen the track of the car but can also affect scrub radius. As some people have already mentioned in this thread because some cars already come with positive scrub radius, wider wheels would only accentuate its handeling characteristics. If your car however was designed with negative scrub, wider offset wheels that then push it into positive scrub can have unwanted effects in braking, handeling etc.
Some food for thought regarding the whole spacers=bad. Here is a screentshot of a track/race car with what looks like 100mm+ of spacers. Yes the car is probably beefed up in every way but then again it also experiences a lot more abuse. Car is the HKS GR Yaris.
Attachments
FWIW I think the Type R is like this, and there's plenty of guys downsizing to 18s, because it too, comes with pointless 20" ramz. Really no perceptible negative impact in handling in any way, from what I've heard.
Gvardaman
Member
Okay, so if Porsche has used X spacer on a car, the same situation applies. They may be able to use a 75mm spacer and know that their suspension components can take it without a problem. The A-arms on my friend’s 944 (not a top-of-the-line car, by any means) were also made of titanium. I have no idea what the other components were made of, but just because one manufacturer deems it within tolerances, does not mean the same holds true for any vehicle.
I am not trying to rationalize the use of spacers on anything, nor am I saying they can’t be used on anything, just pointing out that every manufacturer has engineers that will test parts and would be better able to determine if they are safe or not. Front wheel drive cars, for example, are far more sensitive to wheel offset (front) than other cars.
Any anecdotal information I used in my decision may not be applicable here, but while it was not based on fear of the unknown, I am not purporting to be an automotive engineer. If I were, my knowledge might still be moot if I weren’t specifically a Tesla engineer.
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