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How many cars will Tesla deliver in Q4?

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There is absolutely a cost to creating demand they cannot meet. People who want to buy a product and cannot get frustrated and unhappy instead of being indifferent. They tell all their friends that you shouldn't consider one, I tried to buy it and would have had to wait a year. They need to get down to a 3 month backlog or so before they start serious advertising.
(1) do some statistical analysis of popular configurations
(2) build some vehicles based on (1)
(3) deliver them to stores as display vehicles
(4) don't put a sticker price on them
(5) when asked, indicate that the vehicle is not intended for sale but, when pressed, state that it is available for a $10k restocking premium

I don't think Tesla wants to go the way of "stock on hand" though.
 
The kind of person who doesn't want to wait for their purchase isn't going to like that answer either. The point is if your natural demand is close to or slightly above your current (ramping) supply, there's no point in inducing demand.

Super Bowl 2014 is certainly plausible.
 
So... How many cars will Tesla deliver in Q4? This is the main subject of this thread and the central piece of guidance Elon provided for Q4. As you'll recall, the revised Estimate from Elon was 2500-3000 DELIVERED in Q4. Of course, we all know, "delivered" can be "put on truck" and paid for by customer. Of course we may not get an official announcement till earning call on Feb 11th. That being said, what is everyone's guess? It seems to me they delivered at least 2500.

Lets have a good discussion on this based on available data points
 
On the TM forum, VIN 3062 was reported on a truck on 12/31. If that counts as delivery, and VINs are totally sequential, then they delivered "over 3000"!

The TMC delivery spreadsheet (about 650 reports) has the last 2012 Delivered VIN as 3314. The first 2013 Delivered VIN is 3304. Clearly, out of sequence. Plus there is a 100+ gap (maybe 150) between US Sig and US Production VINs, and another 80+ gap after Canadian Sig VINs, so that's about 200 missing.

Seems that 3000 for the year is unlikely. 2500 seems a reasonable minimum - but this is whole year. You have to subtract out a couple hundred plus cars delivered in Q3. So, Tesla might not have made its Q4 delivery goal. They'll probably talk production numbers instead.
 
The TMC delivery spreadsheet (about 650 reports) has the last 2012 Delivered VIN as 3314. The first 2013 Delivered VIN is 3304. Clearly, out of sequence. Plus there is a 100+ gap (maybe 150) between US Sig and US Production VINs, and another 80+ gap after Canadian Sig VINs, so that's about 200 missing.

Seems that 3000 for the year is unlikely. 2500 seems a reasonable minimum - but this is whole year. You have to subtract out a couple hundred plus cars delivered in Q3. So, Tesla might not have made its Q4 delivery goal. They'll probably talk production numbers instead.

Thanks for this... Does the "TMC delivery sheet" include cars that are still in route to customer as of 12/31/12?! These are treated as delivered from an accounting standpoint even though the customer isn't actually physically receiving the car until 2013.
 
Honestly I think Elon would have been better to have given a target for delivery rate at the end of Q4. Then they wouldn't have all had to bust their asses for an arbitrary quarterly deadline. On the other hand I got my car before the end of the quarter, so :smile:
 
Honestly I think Elon would have been better to have given a target for delivery rate at the end of Q4. Then they wouldn't have all had to bust their asses for an arbitrary quarterly deadline. On the other hand I got my car before the end of the quarter, so :smile:

Agreed. I think inside council at TM should do better at controlling what he chooses to say (now that TM is public). I think he probably got schooled after his recent twitter comments too. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Elon. He just needs to tighten up a bit as the leader of a public company.
 
Agreed. I think inside council at TM should do better at controlling what he chooses to say (now that TM is public). I think he probably got schooled after his recent twitter comments too. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Elon. He just needs to tighten up a bit as the leader of a public company.

As much as I think you are right. Part of me hopes that he doesn't. The fact that he is so open about everything contributes a great deal to my trust in him.

When Elon talks, I tend to believe him. Now, that doesn't mean that I agree that what he says is going to come true; but, I do trust that he believes it will. And that is more than I can say for most "experienced" CEOs (or politicians for that matter). I feel like I can take what he says as a base, then discount it appropriately based on my world view. With other leaders, I find that I do just as well ignoring everything they say and working off my own evaluation of the situation. They tend to just make noise and that drowns out the signal I'm looking for.

I never feel like I need to read between the lines with Elon, and that is refreshing.
 
So... How many cars will Tesla deliver in Q4? This is the main subject of this thread and the central piece of guidance Elon provided for Q4. As you'll recall, the revised Estimate from Elon was 2500-3000 DELIVERED in Q4. Of course, we all know, "delivered" can be "put on truck" and paid for by customer. Of course we may not get an official announcement till earning call on Feb 11th. That being said, what is everyone's guess? It seems to me they delivered at least 2500.

Lets have a good discussion on this based on available data points

From a financial accounting perspective, one needs to look at TSLA's revenue recognition policy. TSLA recognizes revenue as follows (from their Q3-12 10-Q report):

Revenue Recognition

We recognize revenues from sales of Model S and the Tesla Roadster, including vehicle options and accessories, vehicle service and sales of emission credits, such as zero emission vehicle and greenhouse gas emission credits, as well as sales of electric vehicle powertrain components and systems, such as battery packs and drive units.

We recognize revenue when:

(i) persuasive evidence of an arrangement exists;
(ii) delivery has occurred and there are no uncertainties regarding customer acceptance;
(iii) fees are fixed or determinable; and
(iv) collection is reasonably assured.


It will be interesting to see how TSLA (and their auditors) consider loading a vehicle on a common carrier in Fremont on 12/31/12, knowing that the customer 'wants' to accept the vehicle so they can claim their $7,500 tax credit in 2012. Both the seller's (TSLA) and the buyer's interests are aligned in this situation, which is somewhat unique. However, tax treatment can be different than financial accounting ...

From a vehicles shipped perspective, you should note that vehicles in the VIN sequence were still waiting for certain parts and remediation, so the highest VIN loaded onto common carriers in Fremont were not in sequential order. Further, there were vehicles in TESLA's control in other locations that were not delivered to customer nor were on common carriers, so those vehicles could be considered to be 'in transit' or 'finished goods' inventory.

Interestingly, VIN 1653 was delivered on 12/31/12. You can well imagine, and estimate, the number of VINs higher than 1653 that were still in TSLA's control as at 12/31/12.

Finally, there could be a portion of 'deferred revenue' on TSLA's balance sheet that represents payments made by customers for their Model S that was not delivered nor put on a common carrier by 12/31/12 because of remediation or missing components.
 
We recognize revenue when:

(i) persuasive evidence of an arrangement exists;
(ii) delivery has occurred and there are no uncertainties regarding customer acceptance;
(iii) fees are fixed or determinable; and
(iv) collection is reasonably assured.


It will be interesting to see how TSLA (and their auditors) consider loading a vehicle on a common carrier in Fremont on 12/31/12, knowing that the customer 'wants' to accept the vehicle so they can claim their $7,500 tax credit in 2012. Both the seller's (TSLA) and the buyer's interests are aligned in this situation, which is somewhat unique. However, tax treatment can be different than financial accounting ...
Perhaps this is why Tesla sent emails to people asking whether they wanted delivery in 2012 or 2013? If someone replied that they wanted the car in 2012, that strengthens the "customer acceptance" leg of the revenue recognition test.
 
Perhaps this is why Tesla sent emails to people asking whether they wanted delivery in 2012 or 2013? If someone replied that they wanted the car in 2012, that strengthens the "customer acceptance" leg of the revenue recognition test.

I would look to the documentation between Tesla and the customer regarding direct shipment, if I were looking for reasons to dispute or accept the revenue recognition policy on this set of deliveries. Perhaps some folks on the boards here could provide an example of the paperwork they received, if there's an area that discusses Tesla's obligations, the customer's acceptance of certain terms, or any specifics around whether Tesla and the customer agree about who owns the car while in transit.