How many kWh can they squeeze into the Model 3...?

[dsvick]

I just read this Fortune article today: Why Tesla's New Battery Pack Is Important
This paragraph caught my attention: "The 100-kilowatt hour battery pack will help differentiate the Model S and Model X from the less expensive Model 3, which is supposed to cost $35,000 and start shipping at the end of 2017. The range of the Model 3 isn’t supposed to be any more than 250 miles per charge, according to analysts".
I hope this won't be the case. What do you think? I have a Model 3 reserved but if none of the proposed ranges exceeds 300 miles at the time the production starts, I'll most likely cancel my reservation. Range is important for me. I understand that Tesla needs to differentiate the Model S from Model 3 but I don't think that range should be a factor. To me, Acceleration, Comfort/Luxury features, and Space should be differentiating factors.

Maybe the "analysts" are talking about the base model for the 250 mile range.
I expect the base to have about the 215 initial estimates and then an extended one, maybe 75 kwh, to get it closer to 250 miles. I think at this point you'll be looking at at least a 90kwh pack to get your 300 miles. A lot of it will come down to what they can get the per kwh price down to.

 

[Swampgator]

You guys are freaking killing me with this.
The M3 will need no more than a 75 kwH (probably 70 kwH) hour battery to get 300 miles range.
The Model S 75D gets 259 miles and weighs 4700#
A Model 3 75D that weighs 1000 # LESS is going to easily get over 300 mile range.
All of this talk of 100 kwH M3s is driving me insane.

 

[Garlan Garner]

You guys are freaking killing me with this.
The M3 will need no more than a 75 kwH (probably 70 kwH) hour battery to get 300 miles range.
The Model S 75D gets 259 miles and weighs 4700#
A Model 3 75D that weighs 1000 # LESS is going to easily get over 300 mile range.
All of this talk of 100 kwH M3s is driving me insane.

Stop reading it then....or in your case...stop listening to it.

Don't get driven insane ..... drive a Tesla - w/Ludicrous.

 

[PJFW8]

I just read this Fortune article today: Why Tesla's New Battery Pack Is Important
This paragraph caught my attention: "The 100-kilowatt hour battery pack will help differentiate the Model S and Model X from the less expensive Model 3, which is supposed to cost $35,000 and start shipping at the end of 2017. The range of the Model 3 isn’t supposed to be any more than 250 miles per charge, according to analysts".
I hope this won't be the case. What do you think? I have a Model 3 reserved but if none of the proposed ranges exceeds 300 miles at the time the production starts, I'll most likely cancel my reservation. Range is important for me. I understand that Tesla needs to differentiate the Model S from Model 3 but I don't think that range should be a factor. To me, Acceleration, Comfort/Luxury features, and Space should be differentiating factors.

I would cancel too. I need 320 or more EPA range. I might get by with 300, but a 250 EPA on a cold winter day shrinks to under 200 quickly.

 

[JeffK]

The range of the Model 3 isn’t supposed to be any more than 250 miles per charge, according to analysts

These ANALysts are clueless and are talking about the base model... last time I checked the base model of the Model S wasn't 100 kWh. As a matter of fact, the base Model S has a range 5 miles less than the Model 3 will.

Also let's do some basic math without exact dimensions. Model 3 is supposed to be 20% smaller and the batteries are supposed to be nearly 40% more energy dense so (100kWh* 0.8) * 1.4 = 110 kWh. The Model 3 battery packs are also supposed to be significantly cheaper to build.

A P100DL Model 3 would be amazing.

 

[LeiChat]

The Model 3 battery packs are also supposed to be significantly cheaper to build

And need replacing significantly sooner? :'(

 

[ApauloThirteen]

And need replacing significantly sooner? :'(

Cheaper doesn't imply cheaper quality. If anything, battery trajectory is: more powerful, possibly lighter, possibly faster charging and have equal or better longevity.

 

[JeffK]

Cheaper doesn't imply cheaper quality. If anything, battery trajectory is: more powerful, possibly lighter, possibly faster charging and have equal or better longevity.

Yes, if the partnership with Jeff Dahn is any indicator the batteries might get significantly better and less expensive at the same time.

 

[Alketi]

Model 3 is supposed to be 20% smaller and the batteries are supposed to be nearly 40% more energy dense so (100kWh* 0.8) * 1.4 = 110 kWh. The Model 3 battery packs are also supposed to be significantly cheaper to build.

What's the source on the 40% gain in energy density?

 

[BluestarE3]

And need replacing significantly sooner? :'(

And this assertion is based on what?

 

[Swampgator]

Jeff K,

 

[Lex]

I believe what LeiChat is suggesting is that with the larger cell size, it may be more difficult to manage the thermal mass of the cells. But then again this is Tesla we're talking about

 

[wallet.dat]

I just read this Fortune article today: Why Tesla's New Battery Pack Is Important
This paragraph caught my attention: "The 100-kilowatt hour battery pack will help differentiate the Model S and Model X from the less expensive Model 3, which is supposed to cost $35,000 and start shipping at the end of 2017. The range of the Model 3 isn’t supposed to be any more than 250 miles per charge, according to analysts".

Wouldn't that imply a ceiling of around 70kWh for the top end battery then? And given the fact that Tesla has stated that the Model 3 will have a base battery pack of "less than 60kWh", that makes for a really narrow range between base model and balls-out AWD PXXD, no?

 

[Az_Rael]

Wouldn't that imply a ceiling of around 70kWh for the top end battery then? And given the fact that Tesla has stated that the Model 3 will have a base battery pack of "less than 60kWh", that makes for a really narrow range between base model and balls-out AWD PXXD, no?

Before the 60 was relaunched you could get a 75 and a 90 Model S. So only two battery choices that were 15kWh apart. So there could be a 55kWh base and a P70DL as the top o'the line for twice the base price.

 

[Lex]

When Canada switched over to the Metric system, some gas stations refused to sell in litres and continued in gallons.

On a newscast, I saw a poor luddite shout "give me $20 regular... IN GALLONS !" It made no sense. People don't buy a certain measured amount of fuel for their cars, they either state a target dollar value or say "filler 'er up".

kWh is just a number and it's just one variable in the Model 3 equation. In fact you should probably be hoping for the smallest possible kWh with the highest possible rated miles... so I can see why Swampgator lost his sh!t

Comparing big numbers is such a macho thing to do though eh ?

Fun to speculate (for some hehe) but the real number you want is distance.

 

[Garlan Garner]

And need replacing significantly sooner? :'(

Who said that?

 

[Garlan Garner]

I believe what LeiChat is suggesting is that with the larger cell size, it may be more difficult to manage the thermal mass of the cells. But then again this is Tesla we're talking about

What? You got that from what he said?

Is this some kind of telepathic forum.

 

[Alketi]

I believe what LeiChat is suggesting is that with the larger cell size, it may be more difficult to manage the thermal mass of the cells. But then again this is Tesla we're talking about

There were some hints yesterday that Tesla may have either switched over to a horizontal arrangement with layers of cooling, or over to an immersion cooling system. An immersion cooling system would be inline with Elon's statement about approaching theoretical pack density.

Some more discussion here.

 

[timk225]

I'm tired of reading statements such as "A M3 only needs X amount of KW to get 300 miles". I DON'T CARE what the minimum number of KWs is to get 300 miles!!! I care about how many KW Tesla can pack in there! More is always better!

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

Based on dimensional data, the Model 3 has 84% of the battery area of the Model S
So an 85kWh battery is realistic, if not 90kWh with battery density improvements (21700).