How much should the HOA charge? (I'm the HOA president)

[Pricedm]

I am in direct communication with them and they softened that requirement to four. Don't know why they haven't updated the site. We will be installing four universal HPWCs under this program.

Same; I am working with Tesla commercial charging team. I am working with my condo HOA board in Winter Park, CO to add five Tesla destination chargers to a slope-side condo building, mainly short-term vacation renters. At $600 per Tesla Universal Wall Connector, plus $0.01 per kWh for administration charges, minimum four chargers, the Tesla "level 2" commercial program is an easy solution to implement.

Last time I checked, Chargepoint admin fees were around $300 month flat fee plus $5,000 for a two port Level 2 EVSE....

Condo's electricity is $0.10 kWh plus demand charges. Our electricity provider suggested charging $0.15 - $0.20/kWh to cover kWh + kW demand charges.

A single 100A circuit delivering 80A continuous to 5 chargers = 16A max current if all 5 EVSE are in use at the same time. Will have all 5 chargers "load share" and likely cap max current draw to 20A (+19 miles per hour) to balance out kW demand charges – convenience of range added per charging session.

 

[theflyer]

Same; I am working with Tesla commercial charging team. I am working with my condo HOA board in Winter Park, CO to add five Tesla destination chargers to a slope-side condo building, mainly short-term vacation renters. At $600 per Tesla Universal Wall Connector, plus $0.01 per kWh for administration charges, minimum four chargers, the Tesla "level 2" commercial program is an easy solution to implement.

Last time I checked, Chargepoint admin fees were around $300 month flat fee plus $5,000 for a two port Level 2 EVSE....

Condo's electricity is $0.10 kWh plus demand charges. Our electricity provider suggested charging $0.15 - $0.20/kWh to cover kWh + kW demand charges.

A single 100A circuit delivering 80A continuous to 5 chargers = 16A max current if all 5 EVSE are in use at the same time. Will have all 5 chargers "load share" and likely cap max current draw to 20A (+19 miles per hour) to balance out kW demand charges – convenience of range added per charging session.

That's awesome. I am aiming for $0.25/kWh to help recover capital costs over time. We have a commercial rate plan that allows for 28 days per year of very high rates (think summer heat). For those days we will increase the per kWh price to something like 60 cents to disincentivize charging. Teslas solution is the only one we found that allows us to change the price and have it take effect at midnight.

In general, I think condominiums need to keep the price to 30 cents or less, otherwise people will go elsewhere.

 

[brkaus]

This is an old thread, but wondering how much the base cost was prior to the EV user. Perhaps it’s easier to meter that and remove it from the total. Or just have the EV user pay the entire bill assuming rest is small in comparison.

 

[Earl]

In general, I think condominiums need to keep the price to 30 cents or less, otherwise people will go elsewhere.

So, if the cost is more than 30 cents/KWh (including installation costs and the cost of electricity), who is going to pick up the rest of the costs? Those who don't drive EVs? Me? The toothfairy?
I'm not suggesting it should be a profit center for anyone but the statement makes not sense.

 

[Big Earl]

That's awesome. I am aiming for $0.25/kWh to help recover capital costs over time. We have a commercial rate plan that allows for 28 days per year of very high rates (think summer heat). For those days we will increase the per kWh price to something like 60 cents to disincentivize charging. Teslas solution is the only one we found that allows us to change the price and have it take effect at midnight.

In general, I think condominiums need to keep the price to 30 cents or less, otherwise people will go elsewhere.

We're looking at installing a 4-stall destination charging setup in our association's marina parking lot. Have you done any number crunching on the revenue you expect to generate from this cost structure? My initial thoughts on pricing are to do electricity cost $0.14 plus Tesla fee $0.01 plus modest markup $0.05. All-in would be $0.20/kWh.

 

[Pricedm]

We're looking at installing a 4-stall destination charging setup in our association's marina parking lot. Have you done any number crunching on the revenue you expect to generate from this cost structure? My initial thoughts on pricing are to do electricity cost $0.14 plus Tesla fee $0.01 plus modest markup $0.05. All-in would be $0.20/kWh.

Your marina might qualify for 30% federal tax credits. Maybe state credits/incentives are available? Utility provider credits?

Tesla destination charging with pay-per-charge enabled (4 or more chargers) show available chargers on the Tesla app-- great benefit for both Tesla and non-Tesla drivers. Tesla Universal Wall connector makes this possible.

Unfortunately now federal tax credits require "...to be eligible, a property has to be located on approved “census tracts”."
For Census tract info, refer to Experience

 

[Pricedm]

So, if the cost is more than 30 cents/KWh (including installation costs and the cost of electricity), who is going to pick up the rest of the costs? Those who don't drive EVs? Me? The toothfairy?
I'm not suggesting it should be a profit center for anyone but the statement makes not sense.

Think of the capital cost as something to spread over multiple years-- same for any capital project. Numbers might look like:

Tesla Univerasal wall connector: 4 x $ 600 = $2,400
Tesla pay-per-use sign: 4 x $50 = $200
Wiring, conduit, etc. per site (highly variable) $2,400
Licensed electrician (highly variable) $4,000
Total capital expense: $9,000
minus
Federal tax credit (if location qualifies) -$2,700
Utility provider credit ($500 per charger in my location) -$2,000
Net: $4,300

Colorado locations, apply for state grants (80% per port, cap $4,500): Charge Ahead Colorado | Colorado Energy Office
Many states and electricity utilities have incentives.

 

[gt2690b]

Same; I am working with Tesla commercial charging team. I am working with my condo HOA board in Winter Park, CO to add five Tesla destination chargers to a slope-side condo building, mainly short-term vacation renters. At $600 per Tesla Universal Wall Connector, plus $0.01 per kWh for administration charges, minimum four chargers, the Tesla "level 2" commercial program is an easy solution to implement.

Last time I checked, Chargepoint admin fees were around $300 month flat fee plus $5,000 for a two port Level 2 EVSE....

Condo's electricity is $0.10 kWh plus demand charges. Our electricity provider suggested charging $0.15 - $0.20/kWh to cover kWh + kW demand charges.

A single 100A circuit delivering 80A continuous to 5 chargers = 16A max current if all 5 EVSE are in use at the same time. Will have all 5 chargers "load share" and likely cap max current draw to 20A (+19 miles per hour) to balance out kW demand charges – convenience of range added per charging session.

where is this? would like to rent in the future!

 

[Pricedm]

where is this? would like to rent in the future!

Fraser Crossing Founders Pointe condos. 580 Winter Park Drive, Winter Park, CO. I'm on Vrbo (568198) and will gladly offer a local's discount to any TMC member and make a "finders fee" contribution to TMC.

 

[theflyer]

We're looking at installing a 4-stall destination charging setup in our association's marina parking lot. Have you done any number crunching on the revenue you expect to generate from this cost structure? My initial thoughts on pricing are to do electricity cost $0.14 plus Tesla fee $0.01 plus modest markup $0.05. All-in would be $0.20/kWh.

Awesome. I've built an initial ROI model but have put it on the back burner until I have more solid numbers on the install costs. Given that Tesla doesn't have a monthly fee, the ROI equation comes down to how quickly you want to recover capital costs (if at all) and cover your electricity costs, including demand charges. You should probably budget for replacing one EVSE per year.

Since I seek to enable charging at a condominium, I aim to keep charging costs as low as possible because this is our home. We are not a business trying to make money. Capital costs can be amortized over very long periods of time.

We are updating our reserve study and had the company include the EV charging installation on the list of the capital equipment list. They assigned a useful life of 15 years for the installation.

 

[dakhlkt22]

Same; I am working with Tesla commercial charging team. I am working with my condo HOA board in Winter Park, CO to add five Tesla destination chargers to a slope-side condo building, mainly short-term vacation renters. At $600 per Tesla Universal Wall Connector, plus $0.01 per kWh for administration charges, minimum four chargers, the Tesla "level 2" commercial program is an easy solution to implement.

Last time I checked, Chargepoint admin fees were around $300 month flat fee plus $5,000 for a two port Level 2 EVSE....

Condo's electricity is $0.10 kWh plus demand charges. Our electricity provider suggested charging $0.15 - $0.20/kWh to cover kWh + kW demand charges.

A single 100A circuit delivering 80A continuous to 5 chargers = 16A max current if all 5 EVSE are in use at the same time. Will have all 5 chargers "load share" and likely cap max current draw to 20A (+19 miles per hour) to balance out kW demand charges – convenience of range added per charging session.

I assume the site (HOA, etc) pays for all electrical installation fees?

hi

thanks for the info, that helps.
but the owner will have to understand that the car is not really capable not to charge during peak/off peak and accept the average price.

hi

I should have specified our HOA has a single garage,
The garage is owned by the HOA, that's why the outlet is the HOA's outlet.
but it is for exclusive use of this owner.
So no more EV is expected, just this one.

To recap your proposals, at least the ones applicable to our HOA:
- a separate PGE Account for the car would be ideal for all.
- I have to tell the owner that the "no peak" tesla setting
does not in fact prevent the car from charging on peak,
it's just a preference that's not very useful on 110V
- the kwh data from the tesla is not measuring the loss of the charger.
I should either propose to add 25% to the data measured by the tesla
or use a wall meter.
- a cheap kill-a-watt meter would work, but may be destroyed over time.
any brand/model you recommend as an alternative? with wifi or bluetooth?
the owner has to buy it, but I can at least provide links.

I like the Affordable EV Charging at Apartments but at 20$/month
the owner won't like it, and for a single owner it's just useful as a fancy meter.

Upgrading the entire building electrical system to have 240V lines
would indeed be great for the tesla owner, but why would the HOA
pay for that costly upgrade when no other owner will use it?
We have 98y retired ladies that barely make ends meet in our building ...

thanks

It doesn't seem like the OP is aware that California has standards to phase out sale of new ICE vehicles by 2035. Many states are following the CA standards. It seems very likely that the HOA residents will start to be EV owners, even if it isn't on the radar screen for the residents currently. Remember, many of us grew up with landlines and none of us needed a cell phone in the 1990s. Then none of needed smartphones because blackberries were fine. Times change.

Using a wall meter, or using an app like TeslaFi, to track charging seems like the low cost solution for now. But if I were an HOA president, I would be trying to anticipate when one of the residents replaces their ICE car unexpectedly with an EV, or a new resident with an EV moves in.

 

[Pricedm]

We are updating our reserve study and had the company include the EV charging installation on the list of the capital equipment list. They assigned a useful life of 15 years for the installation.

Great idea! Thank you. I did not think of adding the cost to reserve study. This helps to "mainstream" the amenity. Gosh, just a few years ago internet wasn't an amenity. Now its a significant condo association expense and must-have "feature". EVSE/ enabling charging for EVs could be similar.

 

[Pricedm]

I assume the site (HOA, etc) pays for all electrical installation fees?

Yes. I see NYC in your signature; check out NYSERDA Transportation Programs | City of New York.

"Charge Ready NY offers a rebate of up to $4,000 per charging station for businesses that install Level 2 electric vehicle charging stations."

 

[theflyer]

Using a wall meter, or using an app like TeslaFi, to track charging seems like the low cost solution for now. But if I were an HOA president, I would be trying to anticipate when one of the residents replaces their ICE car unexpectedly with an EV, or a new resident with an EV moves in.

The problem with TeslaFi (or similar) is that it relies on the vehicle's owner to be honest, keep it enabled, and report it correctly. I couldn't have confidence that would always be the case, so we sought the external meter solution I described above. Also, not all vehicles have that capability. For example, GM sunset the telematics for the Volt, which we relied on for our earliest electricity tracking, so an external solution was required.

 

[Earl]

The problem with TeslaFi (or similar) is that it relies on the vehicle's owner to be honest, keep it enabled, and report it correctly.

Additionally; TeslaFi, or similar app, requires owners to give their Tesla credentials to some 3rd party on the internet. Luckily, we know that everyone cool enough to be in the internet must be cool and honest (/sarcasm), however, there are curmudgeons, like me, for whom that is a non-starter. I don't even like Tesla to have as much access to my life as they do.

 

[theflyer]

Additionally; TeslaFi, or similar app, requires owners to give their Tesla credentials to some 3rd party on the internet. Luckily, we know that everyone cool enough to be in the internet must be cool and honest (/sarcasm), however, there are curmudgeons, like me, for whom that is a non-starter. I don't even like Tesla to have as much access to my life as they do.

TeslaFi just adopted Tesla's new API, which allows for a much more secure authorization process that doesn't require sharing credentials. The new API allows each person to select from a range of data Tesla will be allowed to share with the third party, including TeslaFi.

That said, I understand the general point you are making. Everyone must make their own choice on an acceptable cyber hygiene profile. I hope everyone reading this thread is using a password manager, generating unique passwords, using 2FA, and adopting passkeys. There are no more important steps than these.

 

[Earl]

TeslaFi just adopted Tesla's new API, which allows for a much more secure authorization process that doesn't require sharing credentials. The new API allows each person to select from a range of data Tesla will be allowed to share with the third party, including TeslaFi.

That said, I understand the general point you are making. Everyone must make their own choice on an acceptable cyber hygiene profile. I hope everyone reading this thread is using a password manager, generating unique passwords, using 2FA, and adopting passkeys. There are no more important steps than these.

I do these, however, they are still a PITA so, due to login fatigue, I minimize the number I get tied up with.

Also, I believe, TeslaFi still requires that I provide my password to their app or is there some other way to avoid this?

 

[brkaus]

I do these, however, they are still a PITA so, due to login fatigue, I minimize the number I get tied up with.

Also, I believe, TeslaFi still requires that I provide my password to their app or is there some other way to avoid this?

Teslafi redirects you to Tesla where you login. Not sharing password with teslafi anymore.

 

[ai4px]

Same; I am working with Tesla commercial charging team. I am working with my condo HOA board in Winter Park, CO to add five Tesla destination chargers to a slope-side condo building, mainly short-term vacation renters. At $600 per Tesla Universal Wall Connector, plus $0.01 per kWh for administration charges, minimum four chargers, the Tesla "level 2" commercial program is an easy solution to implement.

Last time I checked, Chargepoint admin fees were around $300 month flat fee plus $5,000 for a two port Level 2 EVSE....

Condo's electricity is $0.10 kWh plus demand charges. Our electricity provider suggested charging $0.15 - $0.20/kWh to cover kWh + kW demand charges.

A single 100A circuit delivering 80A continuous to 5 chargers = 16A max current if all 5 EVSE are in use at the same time. Will have all 5 chargers "load share" and likely cap max current draw to 20A (+19 miles per hour) to balance out kW demand charges – convenience of range added per charging session.

Good information! Thanks. Might be interesting for my daughter's apartment complex. They had a blink charger but won't re-up the lease and she specifically rented that apartment due to the on site Evse. Kinda stinks.

 

[brkaus]

Good information! Thanks. Might be interesting for my daughter's apartment complex. They had a blink charger but won't re-up the lease and she specifically rented that apartment due to the on site Evse. Kinda stinks.

If they already have the wiring, this should be an easy answer.