Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Those don't go anywhere.
They stay on the car- and if you open a service ticket Tesla can view them... but it's not like they get sent back to Tesla in general and there's someone who reads through all of em.
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How often do you experience phantom braking
- Thread starter Marius A
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- phantom braking
Those don't go anywhere.
They stay on the car- and if you open a service ticket Tesla can view them... but it's not like they get sent back to Tesla in general and there's someone who reads through all of em.
TomT
Technical Maven
It's bad enough and frequent enough that my wife has gotten in the habit of yelling at the car every time it does it!
I use TACC on freeway drives, which are typically 10 to 20 miles. I use TACC on those drives in part because of the convenience and in part to see if it is getting better. I get about one phantom braking incident on each drive. My M3 is about 18 months old. The incidents were very infrequent up until a few months ago, so I assume they started with an update. They can be very sudden and scary. I think they have to do with being oversensitive to vehicles in adjacent lanes, maybe panel trucks. There was something in a software update a while back that was supposed to slow down a bit if you were in a lane that was going much faster than an adjacent lane. That's about when I started getting frequent phantom braking. For me the slow down when passing slow traffic was more than just a bit - the car would slam on the brakes, and I'd have to turn off TACC and take over immediately to avoid getting rear ended. Now it doesn't take a column of slow or stopped cars, just overtaking or being passed by the side of a truck or car in the adjacent lane. I've also had phantom braking as I passed a freeway exit where the stripes split off and a guardrail starts, with no adjacent vehicles. I'm slightly sympathetic to the challenges of trying to keep the car safe in traffic, but reacting to a guard rail is just dumb in a vehicle with GPS and maps on a route I've taken literally hundreds of times.
At first I was thinking it would be nice to get back my $3000 premium that Tesla built into the price of my AWD by downgrading from AP to regular cruise control, like the SR has.
But now I am at the point that I would gladly pay Tesla money to downgrade to regular old cruise control.
The fact that Tesla can't get rid of phantom braking after so many years proves to me that the neural network and FSD are a farce with the current generation of hardware.
But now I am at the point that I would gladly pay Tesla money to downgrade to regular old cruise control.
The fact that Tesla can't get rid of phantom braking after so many years proves to me that the neural network and FSD are a farce with the current generation of hardware.
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Have you taken it in for service? I'm pretty sure you've posted more about phantom braking than I've actually experienced it in 18 months of ownership by a factor of at least 50 to 1 so maybe there's something wrong with yours.
Circci
Member
I have only ever had one Phatom braking exprience and it was the first day I got my tesla. Using Autopilot on the highway coming home from taking delivery. That being said I absolutely knew it was about to phantom brake at least 5 seconds before it actually did because i was about to go under a bridge and the shadow the bridge was casting was extremely dark. In those 5 seconds before I thought to myself I have read about phantom braking, I wonder how it will react to this dark shadow? Sure enough it phantom braked and I was prepared for it. other than that I have never had it Phantom brake or even come remotely close to a situation where I am thinking maybe it might brake. I did however change my safety settings from "Standard" to "late" braking on the forward collision, because I read that may help reduce it. SInce i turned it down I have never had an incident.
If you step on the accelerator, you can override it, right? On my car if it activates (a Subaru), once you step on the accelerator and hold it down, it will override it and begin accelerating again.
Can you also make it so it's not traffic aware? I have a function on my Subaru that I can change from Adaptive (TACC) cruise control to standard (dummy) cruise control by pressing and holding a button for a few seconds.
The neural network should be infinitely more beneficial in the long run. This is also why I probably wouldn't willingly do beta updates - let me be the last person with it! Can you skip or manually do updates as well?
Can you also make it so it's not traffic aware? I have a function on my Subaru that I can change from Adaptive (TACC) cruise control to standard (dummy) cruise control by pressing and holding a button for a few seconds.
The neural network should be infinitely more beneficial in the long run. This is also why I probably wouldn't willingly do beta updates - let me be the last person with it! Can you skip or manually do updates as well?
Yes, stepping on the accelerator is how you deal with phantom braking. Just be ready at all times!
No, you can not turn off TACC. The idea of turning it off would not sit well with Elon since he considers AP to be the cake and not the icing. His words. Sometimes, I just like the icing, and not the cake, and this is one of those times.
You can switch updates to be put further back in rollout, but there's no real telling what that does when you change that setting. It's all a black box to us.
Nope. I have read of too many people getting the "it's in beta" and "it's in spec" to bother. The last time I took my car in for service, they broke more than they fixed. Too many people have the same phantom braking experiences for me to think it's just my car. But you should already know that by looking at these poll results.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I mean... almost half the results (by far the plurality) is "almost never"
The next biggest group is just a minority of the time.
So only about 3 in 10 say it happens a lot.
To me, 3/10 is a lot of people to be experiencing quite a big problem. Even more alarming is, only 5/10 almost never experience it.
I’m not a disgruntled Tesla buyer, I’ve just bought mine in the last week and am still within the return period - and although I’m not planning to return it, I can completely appreciate why this is a big deal for many, including me.
I do think this is a problem that won’t be solved with the current hardware, not because it hasn’t for years, but I’m noticing that the camera awareness (going by the vehicles that it maps on the screen) is very off be it wrong distance or wrong lane altogether.
Ask Elon if he wants 3 out of every 10 owners to schedule an service appt for this issue, lol.
Only 70 people (as of this writing) have responded. Considering there are (I believe) over a million Teslas on the road, this is a 0.00007% sampling size - hardly statistically relevant.
Also, this is a message board where people by nature are going to be more vocal.
AND people are much more apt to complain that compliment - it is human nature. I'll bet there are a lot of people who skipped this thread because they didn't have anything to say since they have no issues.
See, I think this is a separate issue (which I believe you have alluded to). This isn't phantom BRAKING, but phantom SPEED CHANGES. This I have been experiencing a lot more of with (I believe) 2020.12.5.
The difference is that with phantom braking, your car de-accelerates, but the TACC speed remains the same. With phantom speed changes, the car changes the TACC speed on it's own for no apparent reason.
I have started paying close attention and so far, I have seen that it occurs most often when two lanes come together such as at the end of a free way interchange (or within a couple of hundred yards after). Even with the wide open roads (due to C-19), I have been keeping TACC set to 70 (seeing if I can improve me mileage). I have been noticing that in these instances, the speed drops to 65. Remember - this is AFTER the interchange, so I am not counting the slow-down of the car for the transition curves.
I have started experimenting with this. Initially, it seems like setting the speed to 71 (instead of 70) might make the difference (no changes), but it is still very early in my testing.
Regardless, very curious development.
But I will say that the number of speed changes you are experiencing in one mile is very weird. If it persists, I would take the car in for Service (and I am one who normally recommends away from doing this).
Mo City
Active Member
It's actually inaccurate speed limit changes. I'm reading the speed limit sign changes on the display. Whatever GPS source Tesla uses should have an algorithm to catch obvious errors like this.
Initially I was going to respond that I didn't think this to be the case, but then I remembered that there was a maps update shortly after the 2020.12.5 update (about a week later for me). I honestly don't remember if this slow-down I experienced started before the map data update.
So it is hard to say whether it was 2020.12.5 or maps (if either).
I will watch the "posted" speed limit in the display when I drive home tonight.
And there is my preliminary observation that setting to 71 instead of 70 seems to alleviate (those this needs more testing)
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