How ridiculous is NOT installing a 240v service?

[bijan]

I'm not worried about conflicting loads at all, but for permitting in Ontario, I understand you need a load calculation on your services, even if the intention is to charge outside of normal heavy load times (based on the discussions I've had with a couple electricians). Ultimately, I would not likely be charging during heavy use periods as I wouldn't be using AC in the winter, and it can be dialed down in summer if required, but unfortunately my anticipated usage and what the electrical code requires are not necessarily the same

I'm in Ontario and got the seal of approval. Things may have changed since then. Someone in another thread reported you can get hourly max consumption over the last 12 months from the utility and as long as the max load there was low enough to allow for the extra load you would be fine.

 

[Bob_00]

Sounds like 120v is doable for you and you have options if you need it. I'd find 120v charging agonizingly slow, and it sounds like being parked outside in winter may push the limits. Having said that, it's not like you'll wake up one morning and find you have no range left. Instead you may your range is a bit less every morning than the morning before even though you charge as much as possible, in which case you can hit a level 2 or supercharger to get some range back. Just be aware that while L2 is much faster than L1, if you're low it will still be hours.

What about weekends though? Will you be driving more than on your commutes? Having a single 240v circuit, even at just 20A (5x faster than a 120v 15A based on Tesla's numbers) would give you a nice buffer and you could take turns on who would charge from it.

Weekend diving isn't much of an issue because options are available, I'm more worried about through the week, especially if the L1 charging isn't sufficient to at least maintain the charge level, if not provide some (very?) slow charging ability. Ultimately I don't want to be in a position where the L-1 is insufficient to at least maintain a charge level on very cold days coupled with the already diminished range leading me to be in a crunch and having to deal with trips to L-2 chargers regularly.

 

[martind3]

I'm not worried about conflicting loads at all, but for permitting in Ontario, I understand you need a load calculation on your services, even if the intention is to charge outside of normal heavy load times (based on the discussions I've had with a couple electricians). Ultimately, I would not likely be charging during heavy use periods as I wouldn't be using AC in the winter, and it can be dialed down in summer if required, but unfortunately my anticipated usage and what the electrical code requires are not necessarily the same

You're correct that a load calculation has to be done in Ontario along with a consumption history from Ottawa Hydro if you're going to be charging an EV. I've had a couple of electricians come in and they've been consistent with the message . We've decided on installing a 14-50 Outlet. I'd considered the Flo and the Tesla Wall Charger but I really don't need the minimal added charging speed they would give me over the mobile charger and the 14-50.

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

40A (32A continuous) will be useful come winter; maybe even needed.

Or two 240V 20A on separate circuits if your wiring allows. Consult an electrician.

 

[richyrich]

If you do want 240V without a service upgrade, another option is a charge controller. This will disconnect the charger if your load is excessive and switch it back on once it's not. My electrician thought we'd "be OK" but we got the local supervisor for my ESA inspection and he flat out refused to accept the install without this, based on the load calculation. This device makes my install code-compliant for a few hundred bucks extra and I'm more comfortable knowing I won't overload my electrical or be illegal, plus I get a 40A and around 40-50km/h.

 

[Blu-Ion]

I charge at 240v/32amp at home, but I did charge for 6 days once at Ottawa Airport using 15amp/120 in -25C weather, let me just say, I managed to gain a full charge eventually, I probably started at 120km range, after the sixth day I was finally over 400, that's 24/7. You need 240v in our climate

 

[ben1628]

I'm not worried about conflicting loads at all, but for permitting in Ontario, I understand you need a load calculation on your services, even if the intention is to charge outside of normal heavy load times (based on the discussions I've had with a couple electricians). Ultimately, I would not likely be charging during heavy use periods as I wouldn't be using AC in the winter, and it can be dialed down in summer if required, but unfortunately my anticipated usage and what the electrical code requires are not necessarily the same

That is not actually true. You can use your electirc bill as your base and show them to the inpsector. You may even able to get some hourly consumption report based on where you are located.

240V with 50 Amp is the way to go. Get it installed and get inspection for a permit. You may be surprised on how easy it is, be prepared to show the inspector your electric bill for the last 3 or 4 months. WIth this setup, you will get 50 KM per hour. If you want to be on the safe side, just make sure you are not using other electricity heavily while you are charging.

 

[darkenergy]

You're correct that a load calculation has to be done in Ontario along with a consumption history from Ottawa Hydro if you're going to be charging an EV. I've had a couple of electricians come in and they've been consistent with the message . We've decided on installing a 14-50 Outlet. I'd considered the Flo and the Tesla Wall Charger but I really don't need the minimal added charging speed they would give me over the mobile charger and the 14-50.

With a 40A circuit and any regular EVSE there is no advantage over using the mobile charger with the same circuit and a 14-50 or 6-50 adapter. Except convenience.

Some of the older or portable chargers provide only 16A. We have one of those as a backup in our Smart. Amazon, about $220.

 

[Dante]

I think you will be fine. I made it through winter parking in my garage and using the 120v connection only. The car may not charge for an hour or so because it is warming up when you first plug it in. It will also often have the ...... on the regen depending on how cold it is. I pre heated the interior every day, and had a similar commute as you did, and never had any real issues. Only inconvenience was needing to stop at a nearby supercharger after long trips so that I could top the car back up to ~200km range or more before I got home. If I had a wall charger I could have skipped that stop and just gone right home and woken up to a fully charged car. I should also add that I was only charging at off peak rates (7pm to 7am), so I could have added even more range per night if I wanted to, but it wasn’t necessary.

Having said that, I’m picking up an SR+ to go with my LR RWD in a week, and I’ve taken the wall charger plunge just because I think it would get annoying to have 2 slow charging cars. I’d definitely wait if you’re moving in a year or two though. You can survive with only the occasional inconvenience if you’re taking long distance trips.

 

[Mdubz]

Anyone know what type of line a hot tub wire is? Our house came with one (no plug at the end of it) and I can’t determine what voltage it is. I traced it back to our fuse box, but it doesn’t seem that the electrician marked it in there either, nor does it look to be hooked up to a breaker.

 

[Casmium]

Hot tubs could be anything, even just 120v, 15 amps in some cases, you should be able to see the awg making on the cable somewhere

 

[nio796]

Hi All,

I know this topic comes up regularly and I have read a ton of threads on it and they almost all say the same thing, 240v is pretty much a necessity in winter, but can anyone relate any experiences in surviving winter (particularly Ottawa region) on a 15A/120v service alone.

Unfortunately, our 100A panel is pretty much full, so in all likelihood I am looking at upgrading the panel, or opting for a lower amperage breaker (20A). I would consider a panel upgrade, but we are thinking of moving in the next year or two, so I'm not keen on investing that kind of money if we aren't going to stay long term. Likewise, investing in a 20A/240v, especially if we are going to be moving doesn't seen ideal either, unless absolutely necessary.

We have 2 M3s (SR+ and LR AWD), and luckily our daily usage is low. 20-30km each a day, so the 120v handles our daily needs flawlessly thus far, but come winter, is this at all viable? We have 2 individual outdoor circuits, so each car can have a dedicated charge feed (about 1kw / 8 km/h warm weather), but I am not sure how much of this will be diverted to battery warming as I've read varying accounts with no real confirmation. In the depths of an Ottawa winter, can the 120v service provide enough power to warm the battery and supply any charging power, even a couple km/h? Ottawa's only supercharger is downtown, not super convenient, but we do have various L2 options around, so periodic top offs is doable without much struggle, but not something I want to be dealing with on a daily basis.

Thanks.

I had the same issue, yes you can live with it but higher amp is def better but you need to find a sweet spot in between $$ n convenience. Anyone one suggestion I received was to upgrade my electric oven to gas n this free up 40 Amps. Used oven plus installation was around 1K. Based on your use I think 40 amp is enough for you.

Good luck

 

[Zerosky]

Here's another option, buy a Quick 220 and a NEMA 6-15 adapter. It utilizes two separate 120v outlets (can't be in the same room). Quick 220 Systems: Model A220-15D For Equipment with US/Canadian Plugs

 

[MD-2000]

Do you need special dispensation for a stove plug? A number of neighbours of a certain ethnicity have stoves in their garage (possibly due to spicy cooking).

We installed a 240V 40A NEMA 14-50 same plug as our stove uses. The electrician used 8AWG and a 40A breaker, so not going to ever change this to 50A. House feed is 100A so we were not going to spring for upgraded service (which would involve, I was told, running new cables from the street, new main breaker, etc.)

240V/40A gives you 32A continuous. Someday we'll install a wall charger rather than using the plug adapter and portable charger that came with our 3. It charges 47km/hr; I have the charging scheduled for 1AM, well after any use of the other appliances in the house. Never had it not complete charging (to 80%, 400km). AFAIK 120V/15A will give you about 5km/hr, so basically you're charging any time you are home to come close to maintaining a seviceable battery level.

In fine Canadian winters, down to -30C, I found a 12.5km stop-and-go commute (25 min) would eat 3x to 4x the km off my battery(3AWD-LR). I'd often get home from the round trip having used almost 100km. At higher speeds, longer distances, the proportion is less, but below zero it would often be 1.5x to 2x the distance. If there's a supercharger nearby, be prepared to need it occasionally with 120V in your garage.

 

[Mke111]

Hi All,....
Unfortunately, our 100A panel is pretty much full, so in all likelihood I am looking at upgrading the panel, or opting for a lower amperage breaker (20A). I would consider a panel upgrade, but we are thinking of moving in the next year or two, so I'm not keen on investing that kind of money if we aren't going to stay long term. Likewise, investing in a 20A/240v, especially if we are going to be moving doesn't seen ideal either, unless absolutely necessary.

Assuming you don't have load issues, you are aware that there are "half height" breakers, yes? They are very inexpensive and you can easily make room.. If everything is LED in your house and you don't use an electric dryer or heaters etc, You can easily install two 20 amp outlets, if you choose to. Someone needs to do a load calculation of course.

 

[Mdubz]

Hot tubs could be anything, even just 120v, 15 amps in some cases, you should be able to see the awg making on the cable somewhere

Not sure what any of this means, but it says AWG 6 CU 3 CDRS NMD90 300 volts

 

[X.l.r.8]

On AWG 6 you can put a 60 amp breaker but you can charge max 20% less so 48A. That’s exactly what I have. I would label it as 60A fused and 48A is MAX. I put a pony breaker box (called a load center) on mine which you probably have already, and a GFCI breaker so you are golden. If using the UMC then 50A fuse would be better but if you are wiring a HPWC (or whatever you want to call them now) then make sure it’s set to 48A

 

[phtp]

I was doing 120v over the winter with a LR pack and my commute is about the same. You can get a charge but won't warm or preheat the battery. Would recommend getting 240v if you can.

I have a 100amp service too and was able to get a 40amp breaker. The challenge for me was finding space in the panel, ended up combining some cricuts to make it work.

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

I’ve been in “the might be moving” camp for the last 10 years. Same for the house before this one too. The number of projects that I put off that I really could have used, benefitted from, or enjoyed is countless.

Get quotes for a panel upgrade and two 40 or 50 amp circuits, and get it done. You never know, you might be there another 10 years!

And, when you sell your house, it might be the thing the next buyer values over a comparable home.

 

[Bob_00]

That is not actually true. You can use your electirc bill as your base and show them to the inpsector. You may even able to get some hourly consumption report based on where you are located.

240V with 50 Amp is the way to go. Get it installed and get inspection for a permit. You may be surprised on how easy it is, be prepared to show the inspector your electric bill for the last 3 or 4 months. WIth this setup, you will get 50 KM per hour. If you want to be on the safe side, just make sure you are not using other electricity heavily while you are charging.

Any idea how this works. I pulled my hourly usage for the last year and my highest use was 6.16 kWh and my average use is only around 1.5 kWh. Judging by this I should have adequate capacity from a usage perspective but I can't find any details on how to confirm.