How to Charge your Tesla for FREE (The good part of ownership!!)

[user212_nr]

Soon everyone will be driving an electric car with at least 200 mile range and there will be no advantage to an employer or retail outlet to offer free charging and it will go away.
Like I said before, your employer does not pay for your transportation needs now except business trips. Besides if they did, the IRS would require that you claim it as income like they do now when you drive a company car back and forth to work.

Not quite, providing charging at work is very useful for those who like in apartments and on-street parking accommodations.

The government is providing generous tax incentives for EVs and EV charging - why would they "crack down" on workplace charging? If they want more money, all they need to do is up their rates 0.001%.

I think the only reason that they don't allow you to deduct your commuting expenses is because that would be an accounting nightmare - asking you to account for every mile driven and every fill up. The energy cost in most of the country is also trivial. It really is about the people who need it.

 

[Feathermerchan]

Why would an employer invest the $ to charge everyone's car? Or are you saying that only the ones that need it should be able to charge? Where I worked there was never enough parking for all the employees. And of course many of us lived in apartments. What then? We paid to park elsewhere.
I think apartments will start offering places to charge to attract renters but they will pay for the use.
I'll go back to what I said before. No employer pays for his employees gas in their personal car to drive back and forth to work. It's just too expensive. EV's won't change that. Same for malls and grocery stores and movie theatres.
The IRS already has rules in place regarding personal use of a company vehicle or a company paying for a vehicle to be driven back and forth to work. It is treated as income and therefore taxed.

Free EV charging will not last forever. And it should not.

 

[cwerdna]

Why would an employer invest the $ to charge everyone's car?

EV Charging for Workplace | ChargePoint and https://www.chargepoint.com/files/ChargePoint_WorkPlace_ebook.pdf gives some reasons. I already gave some others.

 

[Feathermerchan]

Wait "Promote Employee Productivity" by allowing them to charge at the workplace? Really? Just put in a gas pump, right?
Electricity and gasoline are just different forms of energy and energy has value. Your employee has no requirement to pay for your expenses involved with transporting you back and forth to work. So he doesn't. Only appearance and govt subsidies would make an employer pay for employee transportation. If you read that PDF it says what I've said. The employer will only spend money he can get a return on.

 

[cwerdna]

Wait "Promote Employee Productivity" by allowing them to charge at the workplace? Really? Just put in a gas pump, right?

Gas pumps don't allow those vehicles to go in California HOV (high occupancy vehicle aka carpool) lanes solo during restricted hours.

Clean Air Vehicle Decals for Using Carpool and HOV Lanes - California DMV allows ZEVs (e.g. BEVs and hydrogen FCEVs) and qualifying PHEVs to use the above lanes for a limited # of years.

Only appearance and govt subsidies would make an employer pay for employee transportation. If you read that PDF it says what I've said. The employer will only spend money he can get a return on.

When I lived in another state, I recall seeing some mandates that the employer wasn't allowed to have as many parking spaces as there were employees working at a site, in order to encourage other transportation methods (e.g. shuttle, bike, vanpool, public transit, walking, etc.)

As for the bolded part, yes, hence why I mentioned recruiting and competition. But, no, there are other reasons such as what CP's documents mention (e.g. LEED certification, sustainability goals and GHG targets (possibly net zero or even net negative emissions)).

Microsoft will be carbon negative by 2030 - The Official Microsoft Blog, Apple commits to be 100 percent carbon neutral for its supply chain and products by 2030 and Amazon Sustainability are examples.

From the Raytheon case mentioned in their doc:

Employees at several Raytheon offices requested the convenience of EV charging at work, which also offered a promising way to attract new recruits. “It can be a discriminator to attract and retain the best talent you can,” says Frank Marino, Senior Corporate Environment, Health, Safety and Sustainability Manager of EV charging. “A lot of EV drivers are engineers, and you want to attract and retain them.”

In addition to employee retention, Raytheon has 14 ambitious sustainability goals, two of which are to reduce greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions by 12% and certify 20 locations as zero waste by 2020. The EV charging solution helps reduce Scope 3 GHG emissions. To meet employee demand, attract new talent and achieve sustainability goals, Raytheon decided to start with EV charging in local offices that requested it, allowing charging to grow with employee demand rather than be mandated by headquarters.

 

[user212_nr]

Why would an employer invest the $ to charge everyone's car?

Not all cars are electric, so they do not need to charge everyone's car.

Why invest money? The numbers aren't necessarily that big for them. It helps them attract and retain employees. Even if it doesn't, its still considered a good gesture.

Or are you saying that only the ones that need it should be able to charge?

If they have a full charge, then I'd not advise charging more.

 

[Rottenapplr]

Um, duh??

lol

I think level 2 shopping center and work charging charging will soon disappear. I never got free gas at work or at the shopping center.

Disagree you don’t get renewable gas. Companies have a captive buyer when they offer charging. Gosh I’d love to have EV charging at my Trader Joe’s ugh

 

[TW14 9LF]

G

From the Raytheon case mentioned in their doc:

I work for Raytheon. They began installing EV charging stations in our parking lots in 2015, right when I got my first EV. They were immediately filled with people charging their vehicles, to the point that they had to institute a maximum time limit to charge, and they also put in a process whereby when your car was done charging, you got an email/text, and if you didn't move your car within 15 minutes, you started getting charged a parking fee. The stations are run by Chargepoint, and they are NOT free. As time has gone on, the company continues to add charging stations; we now have several dozen at the two facilities that I work at in El Segundo.

As far as other places to provide free charging, I run across this quite a bit at various malls / shopping centers. There are also free L2 chargers at a number of CalTrans park and ride locations, as well as in some city offices (my home town has 3 L2 chargers downtown, all free; they are ALWAYS occupied. These are provided as incentives to get people out of gasoline powered cars and into an electric car.

Keith

 

[Kevy Baby]

Wait "Promote Employee Productivity" by allowing them to charge at the workplace? Really? Just put in a gas pump, right?

Except the infrastructures are VASTLY different.

My company installed a NEMA 14-50 outlet for me (and now a Bolt driver also uses it). The cost was around $800 and the additional consumption is irrelevant to the company (we spend about $200K annually with So Cal Edison). I'm pretty sure that installing any fuel system (gasoline, hydrogen, etc.) would be just a little more than the electrical investment made.

 

[Feathermerchan]

Well a gas pump would be more expensive but it could serve hundreds of employees. That's part of my point. Trying to accommodate thousands of employees by installing a connection for each is too expensive and wasteful. When EVs had ~100 mile range it makes a little more sense and you could jut put in a 120V outlet anyway. Maybe that is the option companies should think of. Just install a 120V outlet at each spot. You'll be there for 8 hrs or so and a Model 3 gets what 4 miles of range per hour of charging on L1. That's 32 miles which is about the average commute.
Better to charge at home.

 

[cwerdna]

Better to charge at home.

Some people cannot.

And, it is not better for me to charge at home at a marginal rate of 31.7 cents/kWh vs. free L2 at work. It being free at work was a pretty big incentive for me to try out EVs. I'd been following Leaf since before it shipped in Dec 2010 and finally got one at end of July 2013. I now no longer have any ICEVs at home.

If I had to pay PG&E rates to charge at home, I would've been more hesitant as paying PG&E rates isn't that much cheaper than driving my 06 Prius which I had until end of Jan 2019.

 

[ucmndd]

Why would an employer invest the $ to charge everyone's car?

For the same reason they provide basically any benefit - to attract and retain talent in a competitive market.

Or, to greenwash the corporate image.

Or because they actually believe in promoting the transition to sustainable energy.

I can’t tell if you actually don’t understand this or if you’ve just dug into a stupid position and are being deliberately obtuse.

 

[Kevy Baby]

Well a gas pump would be more expensive but it could serve hundreds of employees.

And will never ever happen. Anywhere. It would cost a company into the millions of dollars and extensive permitting. And all for a dying technology.

Trying to accommodate thousands of employees by installing a connection for each is too expensive and wasteful.

How exactly is it "wasteful?" Besides cost, there is virtually zero downside.

There are tremendous benefits to companies offering this: PR ("Look at how green we are"), employee incentives (if I saw that someone I was interviewing for a position here drove a plug-in vehicle and I really wanted them, I would make damn sure I discussed charging capabilities), etc.

As for expense, it is actually quite negligible.

1. We are at least a decade away from needing to charge any significant portion of a company
2. Tesla (and others) offer ways to do this quite economically
3. There are tax and other financial credits available to companies to make these changes
4. Operating and maintenance costs are negligible

Driving and charging an electric vehicle is a quantum shift in thinking. The concept of going somewhere for the specific intent of charging your car is not going to last - it is (IMO) the last resort of how to REGULARLY charge the car. Having charging available where one normally leaves their car for extended periods makes the most sense. Yes, home is the ideal solution, but at work is also a very smart one. Many people (myself included) live in multi-unit housing (condos, apartments) and the cost can be prohibitive, particularly since it would fall on the individual. Using public charging, such as at a mall or other community place is great if you have a need to go there, but that is only practical if you have a reason to go there.

I am not expecting every company to suddenly make charging available for 100% of their employees: that is nowhere near needed and WOULD be wasteful. But smart companies evolve and see ways to attract valuable employees. And providing EV charging is a smart and cheap way to do that.

 

[Feathermerchan]

And what I'm saying is simply that employers have never paid to fill up your tank with gas (not counting reimbursements for company use here) so why would they pay to charge up your EV? To make themselves look good? That only goes so far and is hypocritical in my view. If you have driven an EV for a few years it becomes the norm and you don't expect to charge for free just like you do not expect a free tank of gas. I think it borders on dishonest to expect something for nothing or to expect others to do for you what you can (and should) do for yourself. I'm sorry if you live where electricity is expensive but that is no reason to expect your employer to give you free electricity.
As far as gas pumps Electric, gas and probably some water utilities have gas pumps at service centers. It would be pretty easy for one of those companies to open them up to employees as a benefit. In fact any employer could just give out gas cards to all employees.

As for the Raytheon example above and the promotion of "Make your employees more productive" by offering free electricity, see how complicated it gets when the company has to monitor employees time charging and add fees to get them to move when their charge is complete? How about just pay them more if they drive and EV. That would be an incentive with virtually no cost.

I think y'all will be surprised how quickly we transition to EVs. Global EV sales in 2021 will surely be over a million and with the German and Texas factories and other companies, it will be a steep climb from there.

Finally we know that V2G is coming right? So you will be able go charge up with free electricity at work and come home and run your house with your car or sell the electricity back on the grid. Nice.

 

[cwerdna]

Finally we know that V2G is coming right? So you will be able go charge up with free electricity at work and come home and run your house with your car or sell the electricity back on the grid. Nice.

FWIW, V2H has been going on in Japan for many years now.

See my reply at the bottom of Post your questions about the '18 LEAF 2 reveal here - Page 6 - My Nissan Leaf Forum. Per Wayback Machine, there were 2400 V2H systems installed in Japan as of Dec 2014.

I've seen a few of the units at V2X – Chademo Association at Tokyo Motor Show 2019 and earlier.

There are unfortunately regulatory hurdles/barriers in the US re: V2G.

but that is no reason to expect your employer to give you free electricity.

Wow. That's something I actually agree with. We already have stated numerous reasons why some companies do, including my generous employer.

 

[Kevy Baby]

I can’t tell if you actually don’t understand this or if you’ve just dug into a stupid position and are being deliberately obtuse.

Based on the most recent post, I believe these are both correct.

 

[jjrandorin]

I happen to agree with both sides of this debate. I dont think that employers need to provide FREE electricity, but I also believe that some will to attract talent, and that many employers will build out FOR PAY charging.

People in california (and specifically the bay area) have a skewed view of this, in my opinion. People in Texas who pay somewhere between 8 cents and 15 cents a kWh likely dont quite understand "what the big deal" is around cost of charging, while the typical california cost per kWh is between off peak of 16 cents a kWh to on peak over 50 cents a kWh.

I happen to work for a company those up in the bay area would be familiar with (the one with the big blue buses, busing their employees to work) which is one of the leaders in our particular field. I dont work in San Fran, but in southern california, and the location I work at has EV charging, but its not free. The parking spaces are also (at my location in southern california) NOT "primo" ones right up front, they are at a back building down the street, so less convenient.

The cost to charge is roughly what someone would pay to charge at home, so the stations are usually utilized by those who have to drive somewhere else once they get to work, or have a long commute, or, drive shorter range EVs.

I think we will see the continued build of free charging at places that have incentives to keep you there or lure you there (shopping centers, restaurants etc). I also think that workplaces will eventually stop offering charging "for free", if for no other reason because then they wont have to contend with designing programs around making people move their cars.

Highly desirable employers who are attemping to attract specialized talent, might either continue to offer it "for free" or even give certain employees cards to unlock charging on the company (similar to company gas cards).

I feel that pay charging at work will expand, but "for free" charging at work is unsustainable at scale, but will be offered to "some". We will have more charging infrastructure, but everyone wont be charging for free at work, even at high end employers.

If the stations were free at my specific location, for example, you likely wouldnt be able to get one. When the company had a lunch N learn session to tell us we were getting EV chargers a couple years ago, there were like 150 people there, and my site has about 600 people. The second they said " for cost" you could feel the palpable air go out of the room. If they were free, probably half our employees would have bought EVs and tried to plug into the 10 stations they installed.

Because its for cost (reasonable but there is a cost), they are generally available.

I think "corporate" in SSF has free charging on campus, though.

 

[ucmndd]

People in california (and specifically the bay area) have a skewed view of this, in my opinion. People in Texas who pay somewhere between 8 cents and 15 cents a kWh likely dont quite understand "what the big deal" is around cost of charging, while the typical california cost per kWh is between off peak of 16 cents a kWh to on peak over 50 cents a kWh.

I agree, although I think "skewed" is not so much the right word as a simple acknowledgement that it's a more valuable and meaningful perk here. Cost of electricity is one thing, but I think the bigger selling point is the cost of living/housing and the simple fact that owning an EV is a logistical problem for a lot of people in dense urban areas with astronomical rents. If you have no place to charge at home, EV ownership is a pain in the ass that I personally wouldn't endure - UNLESS I had another reliable and available spot where my car was parked most of the day where I could charge without much inconvenience. For most everyone, that "other place" is work. From an employer's perspective, it's a pretty cheap perk and buys lots of goodwill.

I do concede that perk is valuable even if offered at a nominal cost equivalent to what it would cost at home (and that nominal cost does away with a lot of the other induced problems when something is offered for "free").

 

[Kevy Baby]

I dont think that employers need to provide FREE electricity, but I also believe that some will to attract talent, and that many employers will build out FOR PAY charging.

I don't think anyone has argued that employers have to provide free electricity. Like @ucmndd said above, it would be a perk, and a relatively inexpensive one comparatively.

 

[cwerdna]

Highly desirable employers who are attemping to attract specialized talent, might either continue to offer it "for free" or even give certain employees cards to unlock charging on the company (similar to company gas cards).

I feel that pay charging at work will expand, but "for free" charging at work is unsustainable at scale, but will be offered to "some". We will have more charging infrastructure, but everyone wont be charging for free at work, even at high end employers.

If the stations were free at my specific location, for example, you likely wouldnt be able to get one. When the company had a lunch N learn session to tell us we were getting EV chargers a couple years ago, there were like 150 people there, and my site has about 600 people. The second they said " for cost" you could feel the palpable air go out of the room. If they were free, probably half our employees would have bought EVs and tried to plug into the 10 stations they installed.

Because its for cost (reasonable but there is a cost), they are generally available.

At my work, all the ChargePoint stations are set to restricted. Employees have to join a group and be approved by our admin to use the stations. We have some Tesla wall connectors which unfortunately can't have access control.

Our free charging is likely why we went from pretty low charging station utilization to WAY more than we have J1772 handles and Tesla WC handles after several years.

It would be very against our company culture and that of many Silicon Valley companies to only provide free charging to select few while charging $ to others. It would have to be one or the other for everyone, unless you wanted a big uprorar.

Also, the concept of charging $ to charge esp. at companies that have hundreds of millions or billions (in $) in profits per year feels like nickel and diming employees, hence why quite a few don't. And yes, some of those extremely profitable companies do charge their employees for EV charging.