How to sue Tesla over historical claims

[Droschke]

I'd be interested to hear where they blacklisted people in the past. The only cases I know of is people flipping cars against the MVPA agreement.

Yes, those were the cases. I had edited my post after recalling what those cases were about before you replied to avoid any confusion.

 

[Krash]

…Not sure on HW3 yet…

Interesting that many are getting it for free.

 

[gearchruncher]

Interesting that many are getting it for free.

Yep, but for me, every time I asked (including after many people were getting it for free), I was told it was $1,000. So lawsuit it was.

Like I say, I don't even know how Tesla could figure out how to blacklist someone when they can't even figure out what to charge for HW3.

Lots of people in that thread claimed this $0 cost was clearly a mistake, or loophole, cheat, etc, and that nobody without the FSD option was owed HW3, and all owners should know that, because Tesla says it's so. At least my process made it clear that the idea that the "FSD Computer" is tied only to FSD software option owners is highly questionable. Tesla made a lot of statements historically in opposition to that, and at least one Judge agreed.

 

[dcesq06]

To those (moderator edit) who’ve been quoting fine print in Tesla’s documents and claiming “It doesn’t matter what was on the website or what their CEO has stated, publicly and tweeted, it’s whats in the details of the purchase contract with FSD. That is the only thing that legally matters.” Or “You really expect the hardware in the car to last forever and you never have to pay for hardware upgrades? That is on you per the Tesla contract, to always pay for FSD related hardware upgrades”

Guess again.

Those who say it doesn't matter what Elon says or tweets are wrong (in most jurisdictions if not all).

 

[qdeathstar]

Actually, it doesn’t..

I recall several news stories they suggest otherwise.

 

[qdeathstar]

at least one Judge agreed.

No. The judge didn’t find in your favor on merit, you got a default judgment because Telsa didn’t show up.

 

[dcesq06]

I sued Tesla in small claims and won. Twice! You can too. I had two claims:

1. I have a car with AP2.5. Tesla advertised this car as having “all hardware needed for full self driving capability.” When I went to subscribe to “Full Self Driving Capability,” Tesla required a $1,000 hardware upgrade to subscribe to this, while calling the upgrade hardware the “Full Self Driving Computer.” Clearly the car does not have all hardware needed, despite the advertisement at time of sale.
2. I have a car with MCU1. As commonly reported, software updates have hindered the functionality, such as breaking voice recognition and causing lockups. Tesla acknowledged that the issues were known software bugs with no resolution date. Tesla’s solution was a $2000 hardware upgrade, even though the car was under warranty, and the car would no longer do what is listed in the owners manual. A NHTSA recall prevented rollback to previous software versions.
   1. Even if MCU1 worked fine, it doesn’t support FSD, so claim #1 would have applied here.

I read my purchase agreement, which states that an owner can use arbitration or small claims for any disputes. It requests that you email [email protected] for any legal issues. I wrote this address 3 times over many weeks, with no response.

Without a response, I filed a small claims case. I properly served Tesla’s registered agent in my state, and then appeared in court (via zoom!) on the appointed date. Tesla made no arguments to defend against my claims, as they did not appear for the hearings.

The Judge reviewed my situation based on the evidence I provided, which included Tesla’s own claims on their website, owners manuals, service estimates, and their descriptions of the Infotainment and Full Self Driving computer upgrades. The Judge agreed that the first claim was false advertising and the second was a breech of warranty, finding for me in full ($3000+tax).

To Tesla’s credit, when I sent the judgment to their resolutions email address, they did pay the amount in full within a few weeks.

You can do this too if you feel Tesla’s policies are unfair. In almost every jurisdiction in the USA you can use small claims for disagreements such as this. The process is easy, and only takes a few hours of your time overall. Lots of places allow you to file online and attend court via Zoom. Most states don’t allow lawyers in small claims, so Tesla won’t have a lawyer on the other side if someone does bother to show up, just a local rep.

You can do this even if you didn’t opt out of Tesla’s arbitration agreement, as the Purchase Agreement specifically allows Small Claims as a method of resolution in all cases. You also have the option of using arbitration, which costs nothing and Tesla pays all fees. Worst case is you don’t win.

DM me if you want any help.

Note: I don’t hate Tesla. I think their cars and mission are great. I just believe they should be held to promises made as part of the sales process or warranty, and the more people that hold them too it, the better they will get in the future,

Congratulations!

So many people complain without doing anything about it (other than post on here)

 

[Droschke]

I recall several news stories they suggest otherwise.

can they legally blacklist consumers because they had sued them?

 

[qdeathstar]

can they legally blacklist consumers because they had sued them?

What would be illegal about refusing to do business with someone?

 

[gearchruncher]

No. The judge didn’t find in your favorite on merit, you got a default judgment because Telsa didn’t show up.

Untrue.
The judge still has to hear the merits of your case. Just because the defense doesn't show, doesn't mean you can win $10K because someone spilled water on your Gore-Tex jacket.

I had to explain the situation, and why there were damages, statements Tesla made, advertisements, actual service invoices, etc.
There was a less vigorous defense in this case, but the Judge still found that Tesla had both breeched warranty and falsely advertised. The judgement does not say "Defendant didn't show, plantiff wins"

Like Elon says- they don't fight cases where they are wrong, and they vigorously defend ones where they are right with the hardcore legal team.... And in this case Tesla couldn't even be bothered to respond to multiple emails with a simple "let's talk" even when they knew an actual case had been filed and had been served with a description of the claims.

 

[qdeathstar]

Untrue.
The judge still has to hear the merits of your case. Just because the defense doesn't show, doesn't mean you can win $10K because someone spilled water on your Gore-Tex jacket.

I had to explain the situation, and why there were damages, statements Tesla made, advertisements, actual service invoices, etc.
There was a less vigorous defense in this case, but the Judge still found that Tesla had both breeched warranty and falsely advertised. The judgement does not say "Defendant didn't show, plantiff wins"

Like Elon says- they don't fight cases where they are wrong, and they vigorously defend ones where they are right with the hardcore legal team.... And in this case Tesla couldn't even be bothered to respond to multiple emails with a simple "let's talk" even when they knew an actual case had been filed and had been served with a description of the claims.

That is how small claims court works. It’s called a default judgment sweetie.

Obtaining A Small Claims Default Judgment - Civil Law Self-Help Center

A nonprofit law firm dedicated to providing civil legal services to the most vulnerable in our community. We are a non-profit 501(c)(3) charitable organization dedicated to providing free community legal services to Clark County's low income residents since 1958.

www.civillawselfhelpcenter.org

 

[gearchruncher]

I recall several news stories they suggest otherwise.

You've read several news stories that suggest that people that sue Tesla get blacklisted from buying another car?
Not that I disagree they can- it's perfectly legal in a situation like this, just never heard of it broadly. But @2101Guy appears to have some background with getting involved with Tesla, being held under a NDA, but yet indicating they are not blocked from buying another car, so their experience means something too that they don't do it for this kind of situation.

But it's kind of hilarious that for some people they think "don't sue Tesla for being bad to you, or maybe they will never sell you another car!" is a logical argument. Talk about Stockholm Syndrome!

 

[qdeathstar]

I’m glad that you went to court and got a judgment, but don’t oversell what you got. The judge didn’t award you the money on merit.

 

[qdeathstar]

You've read several news stories that suggest that people that sue Tesla get blacklisted from buying another car?
Not that I disagree they can- it's perfectly legal in a situation like this, just never heard of it broadly. But @2101Guy appears to have some background with getting involved with Tesla, being held under a NDA, but yet indicating they are not blocked from buying another car, so their experience means something too that they don't do it for this kind of situation.

But it's kind of hilarious that for some people they think "don't sue Tesla for being bad to you, or maybe they will never sell you another car!" is a logical argument. Talk about Stockholm Syndrome!

I don’t know about broadly… but there is precedent.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-has-a-secret-clause-it-can-have-you-banned-from-buying-their-cars-186389.html

Tesla banned me from purchasing another Tesla after vehicle buyback

Many of you know me from this thread: Yellow screen? Force Tesla to Replace it!. In the thread I state very clearly and factually the process I went though to get Tesla to replace my yellowing Model S screen. Nothing I posted was covered under any NDAs. I simply wanted to make sure everyone was...

teslamotorsclub.com

Tesla Blacklist

So I run a Turo business where I rent out Teslas. I buy many Teslas, and most of my renters end up buying my cars. I got an email from Tesla today saying "Loss prevention team has informed me that we will have to black list you from further purchases. As it turns out, reselling vehicles is...

teslamotorsclub.com

Elon Musk Bans Venture Capitalist from Buying Tesla Model X over Blog Post

A venture capital investor has been banned from buying a Tesla Model X by company CEO Elon Musk. Stewart Alsop, who has a history with Musk, wrote a post on Medium entitled “Dear @ElonMusk: You should be ashamed of yourself,” in which he detailed how he and others had been invited to an event to...

www.eteknix.com

 

[gearchruncher]

That is how small claims court works. It’s called a default judgment sweetie.

From your own link:

The judge might require that plaintiff "prove up" the judgment, meaning the plaintiff will have to show proof that he should get a judgment in the amount he has requested.

Yep, I got a default judgement, while also proving to the judge that the claim and damages were real and valid. It is not automatic.

If Tesla thought they had a defense, they should have shown up, just like Elon says they do anytime they are in the right. It's not my fault or trick that they didn't show. They were served properly, and given more information than legally required. It's not a good look to ignore court cases if you think you could easily defend it.

The very fact Tesla didn't bother to show up to defend is a type of merit all on it's own.

Meanwhile, people on this forum historically said that if I ever did to go small claims, Tesla's high powered lawyers would show up, crush me, and get the case immediately dismissed as it has zero merit and a judge would immediately see that. Weird how it didn't happen though, for how sure people were. So maybe more people should take that path.

 

[Droschke]

What would be illegal about refusing to do business with someone?

I do not know. You appeared to know and that's why I asked you.

 

[qdeathstar]

Yes, you have to show your case is plausible. And you have standing. Other than that your evidence is the only evidence.

 

[qdeathstar]

I do not know. You appeared to know and that's why I asked you.

I appeared to know why it would be illegal? It isn’t illegal as long as you aren’t doing it on the basis of race/gender/sexuality

 

[2101Guy]

Gearcruncher filed a case against Tesla.
Gearcruncher was plaintiff.
Tesla was defendant.

Gearcruncher requested thousands of dollars in relief from defendant.

Tesla was FORCED to pay the thousands to Gearcruncher aka plaintiff. Via court order.

However one wants to spin it? That’s a WIN for gearcruncher.

PeriodT

 

[ucmndd]

I had actually already bought MCU2 out of pocket long ago-

Not sure on HW3 yet

Every MCU2 upgrade for AP2/2.5 cars included HW3, whether you bought the FSD package or not.

Did your infotainment upgrade consist of a part number other than this one (the only one I’ve ever seen)?

MCU INTEL HW3 UPGRADE-For TegraAP2.5- NA
Part #: 9874561-00-A