How to sue Tesla over historical claims

[gearchruncher]

I don't think Tesla ever said all vehicles will always be able to run the most current version of everything. What argument will you use for why you should get a newer version of FSDb?

Anyone with MCU1 bought FSD when it was advertised as a full Level 4 system, at a safety level higher than a human driver, not just city streets autosteer like people post 2019.

Is Tesla really, truly saying that MCU1 will be able to do full self driving to L4, yet in 2024 they can't even put software newer than 2 years old on it, despite constantly updating software on newer hardware?

How is Tesla even complying with the NHTSA recall if they don't update software?

This is why this needs to go to a judge- because there is a way to see Tesla's behaviors as reasonable, as well as a way to see them as unreasonable. The simple argument to a Judge is "7 years after Tesla showed a video saying no driver was needed, my car is still nowhere near that functionality, and so I don't trust them that my hardware will be compatible, given they appear to only be updating other hardware now." I can see a Judge agreeing with that. Just because Tesla says something doesn't make it true or reasonable or even legal.

Plus, as we know, Tesla will never show up to make an argument because then they'd need to say these things on the record.

 

[MP3Mike]

Anyone with MCU1 bought FSD when it was advertised as a full Level 4 system, at a safety level higher than a human driver, not just city streets autosteer like people post 2019.

Not true. Some people waited and bought FSD much later. (Like when it was on sale, which I think was after the downgrade to L2.)

How is Tesla even complying with the NHTSA recall if they don't update software?

They have said that the recall update will be available at different times for different platforms. I am not aware of any deadline for NHTSA recalls to be implemented. It can take years. (I think that they are still less than 70% through the eMMC recall, with another couple years to go to get through them all.)

 

[dbldwn02]

They say you have FSDb, just that it is v10.x. I don't think Tesla ever said all vehicles will always be able to run the most current version of everything. What argument will you use for why you should get a newer version of FSDb?

Because I bought 2016 FSD, not watered down 2019 FSD.

Exhibit A, your honor...

 

[seenhear]

They say you have FSDb, just that it is v10.x. I don't think Tesla ever said all vehicles will always be able to run the most current version of everything. What argument will you use for why you should get a newer version of FSDb?

His argument is in the screenshots - how long is too long to wait for promised features? The car is 6.5 years old. Many people don't even own cars that long; it's fair to say that Tesla never delivered on their promise for this car's expected ownership period. If it had been a lease this would surely be true. My car is about the same age (Sep 2017 build) but has hw2.5 in it, not hw3.

 

[cmwagner75DX]

They say you have FSDb, just that it is v10.x. I don't think Tesla ever said all vehicles will always be able to run the most current version of everything. What argument will you use for why you should get a newer version of FSDb?

the claim can be coupled with safety I feel... All of my features were disabled due to a SW patch, related to FSD Beta updates.. on top of that, MCU2 was the sole reason I was pushed a newer software version but when they checked my SW prior to, they said I was current and up to date..

 

[seenhear]

I must say it's disheartening to hear that even people who are outright owners of FSD (purchased the feature with car new or upgraded at some point) not subscribers, are also facing resistance to upgrade MCU1 from Tesla.

So, if I were to pony up the $6k to upgrade from EAP to FSD on my car today, that wouldn't really get me anything except the HW3 computer upgrade? Grrr...

 

[dbldwn02]

I must say it's disheartening to hear that even people who are outright owners of FSD (purchased the feature with car new or upgraded at some point) not subscribers, are also facing resistance to upgrade MCU1 from Tesla.

So, if I were to pony up the $6k to upgrade from EAP to FSD on my car today, that wouldn't really get me anything except the HW3 computer upgrade? Grrr...

You MIGHT get FSD v10. But even that's not guaranteed.

 

[acoburn73]

Well, looks like they are taking the complaint that you aren't getting updates and want to diagnose this. That's them being reactive to your concern, so I don't see how you can avoid letting them look at the car.

They looked at my car when I complained about being in FSD beta queue for 6+ weeks, and then said "Tegra is rolling out much more slowly than MCU2. Just be patient and keep waiting". Which I take to mean "wait until you lose patience and you'll fork over $1750".

 

[cmwagner75DX]

Just be glad you didn't have to deal with shenanigans.
I was one of the lucky ones to experience this little feature, after paying $2k for MCU2

Tesla OTA Update Is Breaking Autopilot Computer, Owners Report

Tesla owners report problems with updating their cars following a massive recall, and it's possible the problem is busted computers.

www.thedrive.com

 

[dbldwn02]

Just be glad you didn't have to deal with shenanigans.
I was one of the lucky ones to experience this little feature, after paying $2k for MCU2

Tesla OTA Update Is Breaking Autopilot Computer, Owners Report

Tesla owners report problems with updating their cars following a massive recall, and it's possible the problem is busted computers.

www.thedrive.com

This was my favorite comment from that article...

 

[MP3Mike]

I am aware that there is a possible recall decision to be made before Christmas for the bad front end suspension systems, but I suppose that Tesla would not honor any compensation to me as they made up some boloney about me being at fault in an accident.

Norway has completed their investigation: https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/norway-regulator-finds-no-basis-tesla-recall

"The Norwegian Public Roads Administration (NPRA) believes that a break in the rear lower control arm does not constitute an unacceptable risk, and that there is no basis for demanding a recall of the vehicles," the regulator said in a statement.

 

[m5james]

Norway has completed their investigation: https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/norway-regulator-finds-no-basis-tesla-recall

We get it, you like to do damage control PR for Tesla...but what's failing suspension components got anything to do with MCU upgrades?

 

[MP3Mike]

We get it, you like to do damage control PR for Tesla...but what's failing suspension components got anything to do with MCU upgrades?

Nothing.

I was replying to a specific post about suspension failures, where they were talking about the pending recall decision from Norway, and since that is now out I linked to it so they know the results.

 

[seenhear]

@gearchruncher I noticed you edited the OP to say that you won "twice" ... what was the second case over, how was it different from the first claim/case?

 

[gearchruncher]

noticed you edited the OP to say that you won "twice" ... what was the second case over, how was it different from the first claim/case?

I did not edit the post? You can only edit for an hour and this post is over a year old.

But I did win twice. I have two cars. I sued for different complaints on the two cars and won both. They were independent. I think this is pretty clear in my first post?

 

[seenhear]

I did not edit the post? You can only edit for an hour and this post is over a year old.

But I did win twice. I have two cars. I sued for different complaints on the two cars and won both. They were independent. I think this is pretty clear in my first post?

Ah ok my misunderstanding. Thanks.

 

[johnmodely]

Is there really no major class action suite again Tesla for FSD yet? If fsd 12 does not delivery some sort of level 3 for all fsd buyers I dont understand how a class action would not be successful.

AFAIK even Tesla holds a large unrealized cash pile for FSD, at this point they should just used it to partial refund everyone that bought it

 

[MP3Mike]

Is there really no major class action suite again Tesla for FSD yet?

There are a number of law suits currently in progress, though I think they all failed to be classified as a class action. (And I think they are all going to end up being dismissed, as they haven't found a winning argument yet.)

If fsd 12 does not delivery some sort of level 3 for all fsd buyers I dont understand how a class action would not be successful.

Tesla hasn't promised L3, or better, functionality for at least the last 4 years... So, I don't think most people would win based on that.

 

[dbldwn02]

There are a number of law suits currently in progress, though I think they all failed to be classified as a class action. (And I think they are all going to end up being dismissed, as they haven't found a winning argument yet.)


Tesla hasn't promised L3, or better, functionality for at least the last 4 years... So, I don't think most people would win based on that.

So, are 2016-2018 buyers sitting on a gold mine? Or is the best they can hope for, a refund of the $3-5k they paid?

 

[gearchruncher]

So, are 2016-2018 buyers sitting on a gold mine? Or is the best they can hope for, a refund of the $3-5k they paid?

Neither.
The "gold mine" argument would be that they bought the car because of FSD, and they wouldn't have otherwise. In that case, defining damages is hard. Nobody else has real FSD either, so it's not like you had an alternative. Maaaaayybeee best case is the depreciation on the car? But any real judge would see value in you using it as a car. So maybe 50% of the depreciation? You wouldn't have had to buy FSD to trigger this, Tesla always said you could buy it in the future when it's working, but the car had all HW needed.

The thing is, you can get the HW needed for $1K-$2500. So that's max damages there (which is what I sued for).

If you did buy FSD, a refund does seem reasonable if you went to small claims.