How would you prefer to pay for Supercharging?

[J1mbo]

No reason you can't have it stored as an encrypted token. You can't really break it so you'd have to work around it. It might be more trouble than it's worth for the majority of people potentially bricking your car...

Maybe, but you just have to wonder why mobile phone networks don't rely on this approach for safeguarding their PAYG products.

 

[Red Sage]

Yes, but looks like they will also be offering Pay-Per-Use, even if it's prepaid in small increments. Are you arguing about semantics?

And we have a winner! I've been waiting for someone to bring up the 'semantics' argument! w00+! You get a NO PRIZE!

It is NOT pay per use.

 

[Red Sage]

View attachment 192241

Let me know if my calculations are off? I thought it would be interested to look at the fuel cost comparison between Tesla's 100 kWh battery and a Prius that gets 50 miles to a gallon. As you can see, in Hawaii, it may not make sense to purchase a Tesla Model 3 (M3) unless Tesla allows you to charge at one of their superstations and charges the average cost of 12 cents per kWh. It also does not make sense to purchase the flat rate charge for a M3 in Hawaii because you don't travel that far on the island. In California, you only save 1/2 cent a mile when you compare the Tesla to a Prius when charging at home. Savings will increase base on the increased cost of gas and when driving a vehicle that gets less the 50 miles to a gallon.

Uhm... Despite the fact that numerous current Prius owners are undoubtedly going to upgrade to the Tesla Model ☰... I would suggest you do your calculations based upon the cost of Premium fuel instead, because that is what the vehicles the Model ☰ will actually target in the marketplace use. That is, how do the Model ☰ and Prius compare against Acura TLX, Alfa Romeo Giulia, AUDI A4, BMW 3-Series, Cadillac ATS, Infiniti Q50, Jaguar XE, Lexus IS, and Mercedes-Benz C-Class?

 

[Red Sage]

Maybe, but you just have to wonder why mobile phone networks don't rely on this approach for safeguarding their PAYG products.

They rely upon the old networking adage, "Never trust the Client."

 

[Pando]

Uhm... Despite the fact that numerous current Prius owners are undoubtedly going to upgrade to the Tesla Model ☰... I would suggest you do your calculations based upon the cost of Premium fuel instead, because that is what the vehicles the Model ☰ will actually target in the marketplace use. That is, how do the Model ☰ and Prius compare against Acura TLX, Alfa Romeo Giulia, AUDI A4, BMW 3-Series, Cadillac ATS, Infiniti Q50, Jaguar XE, Lexus IS, and Mercedes-Benz C-Class?

You make no sense. So if he wants to compare a Prius, you are suggesting that he should compare Acura, Alfa, BMW.... etc. with premium fuel instead??

Since he wanted to compare a Prius, he compared a Prius. Mkay?

 

[Pando]

It is NOT pay per use.

Lifetime supercharger use = Not pay per use, it's prepaid
Pay per kWh, even if it's prepaid in small increments = Pay per use

What part of the above is unclear to you?

 

[Red Sage]

Lifetime supercharger use = Not pay per use, it's prepaid
Pay per kWh, even if it's prepaid in small increments = Pay per use

What part of the above is unclear to you?

OK... You seem to be a bit angry about something. I've already explained myself a few times. But I'll try again.

Tesla Motors wants your money up front. They want you to pay them first. Since you must have paid them already, before using Superchargers, that is in my strong belief the very essence of 'prepaid'.

Pay per use would be a point of sale transaction. Similar to a gas station. No monies are changed hands prior to you arriving at the gas station. Some gas stations request that you pay them after filling. Some gas stations allow you to pay-at-the-pump. Some gas stations request that you bring money inside the store to pay them, just before you fill up at the pump.

Sure, you could pull into a Supercharger stall, pull out your phone and use a mobile app to pay for a few kWh before plugging in... But I believe most people would instead do so from their personal computer at home before leaving on a road trip. That is a prepaid action. Not pay per use.

Some have stated repeatedly over the past several months that they would like to be billed instead. Meaning, they could pull up to any Supercharger they like, use it as little or as much as they want, and receive a itemized tally of times dates amounts that they would pay after receiving a bill. The system that appears to have been discovered is not that either.

Prepaid, regardless of incremental amount, is prepaid. Not pay-per-use. If it were pay-per-use, you would be paying by the number of connection sessions instead.

I do hope that is relatively clear.

 

[Red Sage]

You make no sense. So if he wants to compare a Prius, you are suggesting that he should compare Acura, Alfa, BMW.... etc. with premium fuel instead??

Since he wanted to compare a Prius, he compared a Prius. Mkay?

I make perfect sense. You choose not to understand, or mimic misunderstanding. It is a suggestion. Not an order. Just an idea to further expand upon a premise that I believe is fundamentally correct, but could use more data to fully flesh it out. Because the advantage of a Model ☰ over those other vehicles would be more pronounced, instead of seeming to be rather marginal instead.

 

[Pando]

Pay per use would be a point of sale transaction. Some gas stations request that you bring money inside the store to pay them, just before you fill up at the pump.

Sure, you could pull into a Supercharger stall, pull out your phone and use a mobile app to pay for a few kWh before plugging in... That is a prepaid action. Not pay per use.

(emphasis mine)

The two examples above are equivalent, and I'd consider them both as pay per use.

We just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

 

[Alketi]

(emphasis mine)

The two examples above are equivalent, and I'd consider them both as pay per use.

We just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Pando, you can't win. Save yourself before it's too late!

 

[Pando]

Pando, you can't win. Save yourself before it's too late!

lol

 

[SageBrush]

View attachment 192241

Let me know if my calculations are off? I thought it would be interested to look at the fuel cost comparison between Tesla's 100 kWh battery and a Prius that gets 50 miles to a gallon. As you can see, in Hawaii, it may not make sense to purchase a Tesla Model 3 (M3) unless Tesla allows you to charge at one of their superstations and charges the average cost of 12 cents per kWh. It also does not make sense to purchase the flat rate charge for a M3 in Hawaii because you don't travel that far on the island. In California, you only save 1/2 cent a mile when you compare the Tesla to a Prius when charging at home. Savings will increase base on the increased cost of gas and when driving a vehicle that gets less the 50 miles to a gallon.

Looks right, but sometimes spreadsheets are too much work:

Prius: 5 cents a mile (250/50)
eV: 3 miles a kWh
Break-even: 15 cents a kWh

Addendum: my local calc for Colorado (not that it factors in to my purchase decision):
Pedestrian driver, 4 miles per kWh or 50 mpg Prius (v)agon
Petrol currently $2 a gallon using gift cards @ 10% discount
PV, non-electical-part DIY install lifetime cost: 3 cents per kWh
EV: 0.75 cents a mile
Prius: 4 cents a mile

The interesting (and positive) point here is that someone actually highly motivated by money would choose PV/EV even compared to a Prius in cheap-cheap petrol land. By fuel costs anyway ...

 

[Red Sage]

@Pando -- EXACTLY! The joy of the internet is that no one is ever broken. And there were always four prepaid lights. :-D

 

[Fred Thompson]

Looks right, but sometimes spreadsheets are too much work:

Prius: 5 cents a mile (250/50)
eV: 3 miles a kWh
Break-even: 15 cents a kWh

Addendum: my local calc for Colorado (not that it factors in to my purchase decision):
Pedestrian driver, 4 miles per kWh or 50 mpg Prius (v)agon
Petrol currently $2 a gallon using gift cards @ 10% discount
PV, non-electical-part DIY install lifetime cost: 3 cents per kWh
EV: 0.75 cents a mile
Prius: 4 cents a mile

The interesting (and positive) point here is that someone actually highly motivated by money would choose PV/EV even compared to a Prius in cheap-cheap petrol land. By fuel costs anyway ...

If your lifetime cost of 3 cents per kWh includes your cost for the solar system, that sounds like a very good deal.

 

[SageBrush]

If your lifetime cost of 3 cents per kWh includes your cost for the solar system, that sounds like a very good deal.

Yep. One of the advantages of living in a cold, sunny, rural place is collecting ~ 1.9 kWh/watt*year from a pole mount, so about 50 kWh lifetime per watt.

Installed cost: $2 per watt
30% tax credit
140 cents for 50 kWh lifetime

 

[Fred Thompson]

The following link is a more current average cost of kWh by state.

www.electricchoice.com/electricity-prices-by-state/

 

[jgs]

View attachment 192241

Let me know if my calculations are off? I thought it would be interested to look at the fuel cost comparison between Tesla's 100 kWh battery and a Prius that gets 50 miles to a gallon. As you can see, in Hawaii, it may not make sense to purchase a Tesla Model 3 (M3) unless Tesla allows you to charge at one of their superstations and charges the average cost of 12 cents per kWh. It also does not make sense to purchase the flat rate charge for a M3 in Hawaii because you don't travel that far on the island. In California, you only save 1/2 cent a mile when you compare the Tesla to a Prius when charging at home. Savings will increase base on the increased cost of gas and when driving a vehicle that gets less the 50 miles to a gallon.

I started to write a longer reply, but it all boiled down to:

1. PV mitigates expensive juice
2. Life is too short to drive a Prius

 

[Fred Thompson]

I added all the states to compare the fuel cost between Tesla's 100 kWh battery and a Prius that gets 50 miles to a gallon. There are sixteen states where the electricity cost for the Tesla is greater than the cost of gas for a Prius getting 50 miles to the gallon. The comparison gets better for Tesla as the cost of gas goes up and when driving a ice vehicle that gets less than 50 miles to a gallon.

I think this supports Tesla charging an average 12 cents a kWh for all states used in their current charging estimator to determine charging cost per mile.

Link to current cost of a kWh of electricity by state

www.electricchoice.com/electricity-prices-by-state/

Link to the current average price of regular gas by state:

www.gasprices.aaa.com/

 

[zenmaster]

Great pay per use solution Tesla! And a very satisfying "in your face" and "feel the burn".
"...It’s a simple, elegant system. It should allow Model 3 owners to have the Supercharger access they need without paying a large fee up front. It will also mitigate congestion at Supercharger locations..." - Steve Hanley

 

[FlatSix911]

The secret is out ...
Musk suggested that Supercharger access won’t be free for owners of its mass market sedan.

Tesla Model 3 ‘Supercharger Credits’ discovered on ‘MyTesla’ page

We’d have to preface this story by saying that the reveal does require some knowledge of HTML. Browsing to the ‘MyTesla’ page, made only available to existing Tesla owners and reservation holders, Model 3 depositors will see a new section called ‘Payment Method’ that has a Tesla-red ‘ADD CREDIT CARD’ button beside it. ‘Inspecting’ this section of HTML via ones browser will reveal a section of code referencing ‘Supercharger Credits’ which is commented-out. Commented code is generally a placeholder put in by developers for what’s to come, though they’re not ready to present it yet.



Uncommenting this code will reveal a new section titled ‘Supercharger Credits’ that’s directly beneath the add credit card button. One would presume that future Model 3 drivers will be given the option to purchase the amount of energy that can be drawn from its Supercharger network.

Though we have heard Tesla’s plans of offering Supercharging as an optional ‘package’ on the Model 3, this reveal may provide further insight on the company’s plans to alleviate Supercharger congestion by adopting a pay-per-use payment plan commonly found on other charging networks.