How would you prefer to pay for Supercharging?

[Red Sage]

I think that it is in Tesla's best interests and its customers best interests to place Superchargers at the shorter distances, like 50-80 miles rather than 120+ for all but the longer, desolate stretches of highways.

I do not have confidence that the average motorist who has a hectic daily life with work, family and whatever else will stop to plan Tesla trips for charging stops. They will pack the car, grab the family and leave. They will not evaluate all the outside factors that reduce range like weather and speed and elevation gains. They won't realize the cabin heater uses a lot of juice. They just want to look at the battery gauge and then determine when to stop, secure in knowing that the Supercharger network spaces them about an hour apart.

As mentioned by others, 50 miles apart is far too close. It would be a waste of resources. Don't worry though, some have suggested every 15 miles or every 30 miles apart. All of the cars offered by Tesla Motors from now on will have a minimum range of 200 miles. Even if one presumes as much as a 50% penalty while towing, that still allows for 100 miles. So that gives a nice buffer if the Superchargers are 80-to-90 miles apart.

I think that in high speed States, or places with lots of mountains, 80-to-90 miles apart will be the norm. In the wide open flat spaces, 150-to-180 miles apart will more likely be the case. Idea being, that as the minimum range for Tesla Motors products increases, to 250 miles, 300 miles, and more...? Having them in such increments apart will allow drivers to pick and choose which Supercharger locations to leapfrog while en route to their destination.

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

I had much the same experience a few months ago: new X with family from Chicago at the Denver Supercharger Station. They had been driving at 90+ mph for much of the trip and charging to near full at each stop. And were nearly full for their final leg to Breckinridge, which is way more than they really needed (I showed the driver my EVtripplanner plot for the route for my car). I tried to explain that high speed has a big impact on range and that it was only necessary to charge enough to make the next station plus a buffer. And I explained about Supercharger pairing. But I expected that they would get the hang of it with time, since this was their first road trip (although I could tell that the family was getting a bit impatient with the long charge times to get to full). And I guess I can understand going 90+ through Kansas, although that doesn't lead to the fastest overall trip time.

Did your Chicago friends seem to learn - or did they blow you off like a crackpot. Some folks just CANT get it, others simply did not know and get it right away. Which camp was yours in?

 

[cpa]

Lemme just say how I came to my statement:

I have worked with hundreds and hundreds of clients over the years in many different accounting, income tax and auditing situations. Most of my clients are successful, intelligent, and talented. Yet many of them fail to follow directions, listen to advice or think ahead. As a result, their behavior winds up costing them more money--whether an increased accounting fee, increased but preventable income taxes, or a substantial penalty for late or underpaid income or payroll taxes. I conclude that there is a segment of the population that cannot be bothered with being proactive in matters that just are not that important to them at that moment. And this pattern of behavior extends to refueling their ICE vehicles as well--it is a mundane chore that can wait until later.

There may be generational issues at play here. There may also be personal interest issues at play here as well. Many of you on this forum are tech types or engineering types or have an insatiable thirst for Tesla matters. Those folks have the mindset to learn, adapt and modify their behaviors because driving a Tesla is really, really high on their list. Others not so much.

Finally, to drive this point home further: I am a competitive and very good duplicate bridge player. I have done well locally, regionally and nationally in tournaments over the past 30 years or so. (I am not world-class or even national champion caliber, but I do acquit myself well in most events.) I used to teach bridge and partner to experienced, but weaker players. They started with bad habits. They kept their bad habits. They never learned to recognize and solve common situations no matter how much I repeated myself and gave myriad contrasting and comparative examples. And I am not talking about something as complex as a double squeeze or a throw-in at trick 10, either.

So, we shall agree to disagree--but 50 miles is prolly too close--I would shoot for 80-100!

 

[dgpcolorado]

Did your Chicago friends seem to learn - or did they blow you off like a crackpot. Some folks just CANT get it, others simply did not know and get it right away. Which camp was yours in?

The new X driver was very friendly and eager to learn. He liked seeing my book of trip plots (especially my elevation plot of his next leg to Silverthorne) which I used to plan long trips (although the car energy plot is enough to use with experience, so I don't need the trip plots anymore on most routes).

^The Denver to Silverthorne page from my notebook.

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

The new X driver was very friendly and eager to learn. He liked seeing my book of trip plots (especially my elevation plot of his next leg to Silverthorne) which I used to plan long trips (although the car energy plot is enough to use with experience, so I don't need the trip plots anymore on most routes).

^The Denver to Silverthorne page from my notebook.

Wow...where did this beautiful plot come from? Is that part of the baked-in Tesla planning stuff, or something you developed. If it is yours...Great Job, (can I have a copy?).
Cant tell you how many times I've driven to that destination and beyond. Used to get 30 ski days in a year when I lived in Genesee.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Wow...where did this beautiful plot come from? Is that part of the baked-in Tesla planning stuff, or something you developed. If it is yours...Great Job, (can I have a copy?).
Cant tell you how many times I've driven to that destination and beyond. Used to get 30 ski days in a year when I lived in Genesee.

That's my assembly of EVtripplanner.com results plus an elevation plot from GPSVisualizer.com (imports a route from Google maps and draws an elevation plot). I use Photoshop to merge the graphics from screenshots. Pretty simple with practice.

Nowadays I just put the EVtripplanner RM estimates in a spreadsheet and write down my actual numbers, plus comments, such as "strong headwind", as I drive. It helps with knowing how much to charge when I drive the same route again. Charging is slow in an old style S60 so optimizing charge times helps.

My S60 RM numbers wouldn't have much utility for you I would guess, but if you PM me an email address I can send you the JPEG image files for Silverthorne (and Glenwood Springs and GJ, if you wish). I've got them going all the way to Portland and Kirkland WA (near Seattle).

 

[david_42]

Going back to the original question, I'd much prefer a pay-per-use, as I doubt we would use Model 3 for long-distances. We own a Sprinter van and that works extremely well for long trips. We've driven our Kia on a long trip exactly once, because the hotel the conference we were going to could not accomidate the Sprinter in their parking. At least, that's what we were told, turned out to be wrong.

As to price, $10-20 would be about right based on local electricity costs.

 

[diamond.g]

Going back to the original question, I'd much prefer a pay-per-use, as I doubt we would use Model 3 for long-distances. We own a Sprinter van and that works extremely well for long trips. We've driven our Kia on a long trip exactly once, because the hotel the conference we were going to could not accomidate the Sprinter in their parking. At least, that's what we were told, turned out to be wrong.

As to price, $10-20 would be about right based on local electricity costs.

Would you consider

We offer multiple charging plans to meet drivers’ needs. We have two products for DC fast charging: for frequent chargers, our On-The-Go plan lets consumers charge for only 10 cents per minute. At the rate that a DC fast charger delivers power, this price is comparable to what a driver would pay to charge at home. The $14.95 monthly fee covers infrastructure development and maintenance. For less frequent chargers, our Flex plan enables consumers to access DC fast charging for a $4.95 fixed session fee plus 20 cents per minute

as a good option?

 

[SuperOmega]

Both options have its merits. For M3 reservation holders, do we cross that bridge when we come to it, or get some advance notice on price? I think it also comes down also to both current and future supercharging infrastructure and owner location, both domestic and abroad. I just read an article, IIRC, that Fremont is getting a deluxe one: Tesla is about to open its 2 biggest Supercharger stations yet, 20 stalls each

 

[raysspl]

I prefer not to pay for Supercharging.

 

[zenmaster]

Both options have its merits.

Are you sure? As has been astutely pointed out several times, pay per use can be abbreviated as PPU which in turn sounds like poo-poo.

 

[SuperOmega]

Are you sure? As has been astutely pointed out several times, pay per use can be abbreviated as PPU which in turn sounds like poo-poo.

I'm a EV newbie, I was trying to be diplomatic, LOL, so I'm ready to be "schooled." Anybody else want to chime in on this?

 

[david_42]

"For less frequent chargers, our Flex plan enables consumers to access DC fast charging for a $4.95 fixed session fee plus 20 cents per minute."

This would be okay. We drive to Seattle about once a year and that's one charge up and one charge back.

 

[diamond.g]

"For less frequent chargers, our Flex plan enables consumers to access DC fast charging for a $4.95 fixed session fee plus 20 cents per minute."

This would be okay. We drive to Seattle about once a year and that's one charge up and one charge back.

Cool. That is the EVGo plan. Which would just require a chademo adapter.

 

[mhan00]

I'd like Tesla to charge by time spent in the space with increasing cost per minute the longer a person is parked at a super charger to discourage people from leaving their cars there for hours. Or have the first half hour or so be free and then hit with a high per minute charge after that.

 

[Az_Rael]

This commented section makes me think it's kWh based charging. It even looks like you have to purchace your kWhs in advance:

<!-- div class="credit-text card-info-container cc-credits">
<span>Supercharger Credits</span>
<span> kWh</span>
</div -->

If they could manage to navigate the various state regulations to allow for per kWh pricing, that would be completely awesome.

 

[ohmman]

Mod note: Some posts moved into a new thread. This update was worthy of it, and I wanted to make it a global Tesla Motors discussion preemptively.

 

[Pando]

I have a feeling that by building out an easy-to-use credit-based PPKWh (pay-per-kilowatthour) system, Tesla can accommodate SCs to eventually charge other non-Tesla vehicles as well. The SCs are turning into a global standard which cannot easily be dislodged by competitors, which have been asleep at the wheel so far. Getting unlimited and faster charging and/or better energy pricing for Tesla owners of course will encourage people to buy vehicles from Tesla and not from competitors.

It's very likely that in the future Tesla will make more money selling energy than selling vehicles, which may even be heavily subsidized from energy sales, similar to HP selling printers cheap and then selling ink at the premium.

Interesting times indeed.

 

[Red Sage]

It's not about Superchargers becoming a new revenue stream.

Assessing fees by time parked won't work until precise charging times can be determined for every car.

Superchargers are already profitable because they bring in new Customers.

 

[dsvick]

I have a feeling that by building out an easy-to-use credit-based PPKWh (pay-per-kilowatthour) system, Tesla can accommodate SCs to eventually charge other non-Tesla vehicles as well. The SCs are turning into a global standard which cannot easily be dislodged by competitors,

In order for that to work the competitors would need to enable their cars to be charged by a super charger, I'm not saying they won't, but it would be interesting to see if they do. Personally, I think it would be a great idea if they bought into it, it would be a great selling point for them. It would take some coordination though since having the CC info on MyTesla page implies it will be a prepaid system, that the other manufacturers would have to be able to access as well.

As far as being a global standard, I don't know the numbers but I think there a lot more of a couple of other types of charging stations than their are SC. Which is one reason there isn't a need to for other manufacturers to jump into the SC network.