HW3.0 upgrade for basic AP owners now free?

[TXmdl3]

This has nothing to do with being a 2nd owner.
Tesla's policy is that if someone paid for FSD on that car, HW3 is free. This does not include subscriptions.
If you did not pay for FSD, then you have to pay for the upgrade, and $1K has been their price for a while now.
Some people got it for free as indicated in this thread, but that always seemed to be some unofficial situation. Lots of people never got it free, so it's not unique to you or being a 2nd owner.

Your options are to either keep trying for free, pay the $1K, sue them like I did, or just live with 2.5.

Right.

 

[seanarbelo7]

Hey guys! Last week got my long range rwd m3
Absolutely loving it , came with 2.5 computer, i saw that alot of people getting that upgrade for free without purchasing fsd , someone knows how or why? Whenever i try to request appointment they sent me 1090 estimate
Help anyone?

 

[Tam]

Hey guys! Last week got my long range rwd m3
Absolutely loving it , came with 2.5 computer, i saw that alot of people getting that upgrade for free without purchasing fsd , someone knows how or why? Whenever i try to request appointment they sent me 1090 estimate
Help anyone?

After more than 500 messages in this thread, you are still asking for a free upgrade without purchasing FSD?

 

[stopcrazypp]

Hey guys! Last week got my long range rwd m3
Absolutely loving it , came with 2.5 computer, i saw that alot of people getting that upgrade for free without purchasing fsd , someone knows how or why? Whenever i try to request appointment they sent me 1090 estimate
Help anyone?

As per the thread you are in, there were two codes, one for free and one paid. There were some SCs that mixed things up when entering the order and did it for free (by mistake apparently). There is no indication Tesla officially offers it for free, so expect to pay for it.

You can also try to fight it in small claims court, which someone successfully did (I believe Tesla didn't attend so the case was won by default), but given you are not the original owner, I'm not sure the same argument would apply to you in terms of Tesla's promises of the FSD computer.

 

[jjrandorin]

After more than 500 messages in this thread, you are still asking for a free upgrade without purchasing FSD?

I moved this post into this thread since it was on the same topic. I only mention it because the person you are quoting created a new thread, which I then moved into this one, so they likely have not read the 500 posts in this thread.

 

[Tam]

Hey guys! Last week got my long range rwd m3
Absolutely loving it , came with 2.5 computer, i saw that alot of people getting that upgrade for free without purchasing fsd , someone knows how or why? Whenever i try to request appointment they sent me 1090 estimate
Help anyone?

Sorry that I didn’t know that you didn't know about this thread.

But now your question was moved to here, thanks to @stopcrazypp for the answer, please don’t feel bad being stuck with 2.5 if you have no plan to subscribe/buy FSDb because it has plenty of power for non-FSDb.

 

[Slavas]

This has nothing to do with being a 2nd owner.
Tesla's policy is that if someone paid for FSD on that car, HW3 is free. This does not include subscriptions.
If you did not pay for FSD, then you have to pay for the upgrade, and $1K has been their price for a while now.
Some people got it for free as indicated in this thread, but that always seemed to be some unofficial situation. Lots of people never got it free, so it's not unique to you or being a 2nd owner.

Your options are to either keep trying for free, pay the $1K, sue them like I did, or just live with 2.5.

But now if you installed MCU 2 and you have 2.5, you will not receive software updates

 

[gearchruncher]

But now if you installed MCU 2 and you have 2.5, you will not receive software updates

I was responding to a Model 3 owner, for which there is no such thing as MCU2. Just AP2.5 or AP3.

Also, you can't end up with MCU2 and HW2.5 if you started with MCU1. Tesla has always forced (and charged you for) HW3 when you do a MCU2 upgrade.

 

[Slavas]

I was responding to a Model 3 owner, for which there is no such thing as MCU2. Just AP2.5 or AP3.

Also, you can't end up with MCU2 and HW2.5 if you started with MCU1. Tesla has always forced (and charged you for) HW3 when you do a MCU2 upgrade.

I apologize, apparently I don’t understand the essence of updating the autopilot so well ((
What is an autopilot update anyway? Is it hardware or software? I looked at the old invoice and it actually states MCU 2 upgrade and autopilot 3.0.
But at the moment I have stopped receiving software updates and Tesla says that I need to replace the cameras. They sent an invoice and are ready to do it for free. But the problem is that I don’t have the opportunity to visit a service center ((
Is it really true that if I don't change cameras I will never get new software?

 

[seenhear]

please don’t feel bad being stuck with 2.5 if you have no plan to subscribe/buy FSDb because it has plenty of power for non-FSDb.

Is there evidence from owners that AP and/or EAP functionality, capability, and performance is the same with HW2.5 as it is with HW3.0? I'm getting kind of tired of how bad/poor the capability of EAP is with my HW2.5 computer. Not only is any semblance of Summon completely bricked, but I'm just tired of waiting for AP to respond to something that is obviously about to happen, then having to intervene before it actually responds.

So I've been researching my options (including following up with small claims court) for upgrading. The MCU2 upgrade really makes it expensive. If I could do only the hw3 upgrade, maybe I'd consider that, if I could count on an improvement in EAP capability.

 

[gearchruncher]

It was a year ago that I changed from HW2.5 to HW3 with EAP. I never noticed any difference, and Tesla has been so focused on FSD that I don't think they have changed AP/EAP at all in the last few years. The only thing HW3 added was the green light chime. My Summon does work though, just as bad as it ever did.

What kind of situations are you in where you are waiting for EAP to "respond" that you think HW3 may improve upon? EAP isn't supposed to respond to much at all.

 

[Tam]

...Not only is any semblance of Summon completely bricked, but I'm just tired of waiting for AP to respond to something that is obviously about to happen, then having to intervene before it actually responds...

It's a software problem, not a hardware one.

A hardware problem is when there's not enough power to compute: frozen screen, computer crashes...

 

[seenhear]

It was a year ago that I changed from HW2.5 to HW3 with EAP. I never noticed any difference, and Tesla has been so focused on FSD that I don't think they have changed AP/EAP at all in the last few years. The only thing HW3 added was the green light chime. My Summon does work though, just as bad as it ever did.

Does your car/eap stop for red lights too? I know they say navigating on city streets is FSD only, but was wondering if the mcu/aphw upgrade would add the ability to stop for red lights / stop signs, even if it doesn't follow nav....

What kind of situations are you in where you are waiting for EAP to "respond" that you think HW3 may improve upon? EAP isn't supposed to respond to much at all.

Cars merging/cutting me off from (mostly) the lane to the right; and many variations on this kind of theme.
Cars stopped ahead of me, and EAP takes FOR EVER to start to slow down, then slams on brakes. Increasing the follow distance does not improve this. It's just as sudden / slamming, just done such that my car came to a stop further from the stopped car in front of me.
- Variations on the above theme as well, such as seeing brake lights on a car indicating it is slowing down, and EAP literally accelerating into it sometimes, until it got close enough to trigger the slam on the brakes protocol, or sometimes not accelerating but maintaining speed and then slamming.
EDIT: also nav on AP feature frequently turns off, in the middle of a straight section of freeway for no apparent reason, then re-engages a few seconds later.

But mostly it's things related to other cars moving in/out of lanes and EAP just not responding at all, or very late. Makes me wonder how this system is supposedly faster/better than human reaction times.

 

[Tam]

Does your car/eap stop for red lights too? I know they say navigating on city streets is FSD only, but was wondering if the mcu/aphw upgrade would add the ability to stop for red lights / stop signs, even if it doesn't follow nav....

With EAP in any hardware, they are not going to add additional features like traffic controls automatic stop.

Tesla wants you to pay more for FSD if you want that feature.

Cars merging/cutting me off from (mostly) the lane to the right; and many variations on this kind of theme.
Cars stopped ahead of me, and EAP takes FOR EVER to start to slow down, then slams on brakes. Increasing the follow distance does not improve this. It's just as sudden / slamming, just done such that my car came to a stop further from the stopped car in front of me.
- Variations on the above theme as well, such as seeing brake lights on a car indicating it is slowing down, and EAP literally accelerating into it sometimes, until it got close enough to trigger the slam on the brakes protocol, or sometimes not accelerating but maintaining speed and then slamming.
EDIT: also nav on AP feature frequently turns off, in the middle of a straight section of freeway for no apparent reason, then re-engages a few seconds later.

But mostly it's things related to other cars moving in/out of lanes and EAP just not responding at all, or very late. Makes me wonder how this system is supposedly faster/better than human reaction times.

Those are software issues. Programmers need to write better programs.

 

[gearchruncher]

Makes me wonder how this system is supposedly faster/better than human reaction times.

It's not, and even Tesla doesn't say that.
What Tesla says is cars on autopilot get into less accidents per mile than cars not on autopilot.
But of course that is true- AP is for highways only and gets turned off when doing dynamic manuvers, while humans are required to navigate every single driving task. Of course AP can do better per mile when it's only responsible for the very easiest driving situations.

I really don't think HW3 will make any difference to you, the things you describe don't have anything to do with processing power.

 

[Knightshade]

It's not, and even Tesla doesn't say that.
What Tesla says is cars on autopilot get into less accidents per mile than cars not on autopilot.
But of course that is true- AP is for highways only and gets turned off when doing dynamic manuvers, while humans are required to navigate every single driving task. Of course AP can do better per mile when it's only responsible for the very easiest driving situations.

But we have the accident rates for BOTH AP-mostly-highway and FSDb-mostly-city.... and both are much lower than human-alone accident rates.

 

[seenhear]

It's not, and even Tesla doesn't say that.
What Tesla says is cars on autopilot get into less accidents per mile than cars not on autopilot.
But of course that is true- AP is for highways only and gets turned off when doing dynamic manuvers, while humans are required to navigate every single driving task. Of course AP can do better per mile when it's only responsible for the very easiest driving situations.

I really don't think HW3 will make any difference to you, the things you describe don't have anything to do with processing power.

Fair. But just to be clear: the issues I described are all related to highway/freeway driving, where AP/EAP is intended to perform.

Somewhat OT: I wonder how FSD subscription manages the on/off nature of features when owner decides to subscribe vs. not subscribe? If EAP is a fundamentally different software from FSD (as implied by this conversation) it would seem quite cumbersome to downgrade the car's software when the owner decides to stop an FSD subscription. So, do they just implement a feature flag where certain features are turned off, but you still are running the core FSD code? Maybe I will post this as a stand alone question in the FSD forum.

 

[terranx]

But we have the accident rates for BOTH AP-mostly-highway and FSDb-mostly-city.... and both are much lower than human-alone accident rates.

View attachment 1012206

Major confounder is that that AP and FSD are likely disengaged when it does something incredibly stupid. Hard to say how many of the actions that cause disengagements result in accidents that wouldn't have otherwise happened, and those will count in the "human driving alone" segment.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Major confounder is that that AP and FSD are likely disengaged when it does something incredibly stupid. Hard to say how many of the actions that cause disengagements result in accidents that wouldn't have otherwise happened, and those will count in the "human driving alone" segment.

It includes crashes where it was active 5 seconds ago, to avoid missing those incidents.

https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport

 

[Knightshade]

Major confounder is that that AP and FSD are likely disengaged when it does something incredibly stupid. Hard to say how many of the actions that cause disengagements result in accidents that wouldn't have otherwise happened, and those will count in the "human driving alone" segment.

IIRC it still counts as an AP accident if AP was engaged up to 5 seconds before the accident. 5 seconds is a LONG time at vehicle speeds.

EDIT- Ninjaed by stopcrazypp