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HW4 Phantom Braking

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TACC. Give the option of dumb cruise control and PB goes away. Better than having paid for all the AutoEverything but can’t use it with passengers/pets due to PB. That’s my situation today.
Dumb cruise instead of the state of the art of TACC is a very good alternative!

I know Tesla could give us that option if it wanted to because it used to sell $35,000 Model 3 with dumb cruise as standard while higher priced Model 3 got Autopilot as standard.
 
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Dumb cruise instead of the state of the art of TACC is a very good alternative!

I know Tesla could give us that option if it wanted to because it used to sell $35,000 Model 3 with dumb cruise as standard while higher priced Model 3 got Autopilot as standard.
Not just the $35,000 Model 3. When I got my LR car in 2018 AP+TACC was a ~$2k option I thankfully opted out of so I also still have dumb cruise control. It's great, 5 years, >30k miles and absolutely no PB ever. The code is still on every car, they could easily add a menu option for it but of course never will because that would be admitting AP+TACC is not perfect, which Elon can never do.
 
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Dumb cruise instead of the state of the art of TACC is a very good alternative!

I know Tesla could give us that option if it wanted to because it used to sell $35,000 Model 3 with dumb cruise as standard while higher priced Model 3 got Autopilot as standard.
Hell, going all the way back to 2016, if you didn't spend $5k on Enhanced Autopilot, you would only have dumb cruise. It's too bad it's not an option.
 
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Do you guys think Tesla will fix this? I have to say that 3 weeks into owning the MY, this is pretty embarrassing.
We have 2 Outbacks (2016 &. 2020) in the family, and I traded a Rav4 Prime for the Y. All three didn't have any issues like that with smart cruise functions ....
 
Do you guys think Tesla will fix this? I have to say that 3 weeks into owning the MY, this is pretty embarrassing.
We have 2 Outbacks (2016 &. 2020) in the family, and I traded a Rav4 Prime for the Y. All three didn't have any issues like that with smart cruise functions ....
I am sure they would like to, but given that it has been an issue >5 years they clearly can't for some reason.
 
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I am sure they would like to, but given that it has been an issue >5 years they clearly can't for some reason.
That reason is the missing 4d imaging radar. Some say it would eliminate the number of phantom brakes down to zero. This is not new: Autonomous Vehicle companies have used it for years with good success.


On the other hand, Tesla believes Tesla Vision is the cure because it thinks after all, when is the last time that you can spot any humans wearing 4d imaging radar?
 
I would have never thought that Tesla, who is spearheading FSD, has a software problem as this one, especially since the same feature works perfectly on our other cars.
It is a little embarrassing when this happens and you have stunned passengers in the car witnessing this phenomenon.
Strange also that it doesn't happen for some at all. Maybe they don't experience the right conditions?
 
...the same feature works perfectly on our other cars.
Different hardware, different software teams.
Strange also that it doesn't happen for some at all. Maybe they don't experience the right conditions?
Not everyone drives on an empty hot straight, deserted road full of mirages.

Tesla cars can run perfectly on specific stretches of the road and not on others.

Drivers disagree on the phantom brake definition and might be in denial that since the cause is known, such as mirages, it's not a phantom brake, and they don't experience a phantom brake even when the car suddenly decelerates for mirages.
 
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Different hardware, different software teams.

Not everyone drives on an empty hot straight, deserted road full of mirages.

Tesla cars can run perfectly on specific stretches of the road and not on others.

Drivers disagree on the phantom brake definition and might be in denial that since the cause is known, such as mirages, it's not a phantom brake, and they don't experience a phantom brake even when the car suddenly decelerates for mirages.
Not sure. When it happened last to me (last Friday), it was around 70 degrees F, on Hwy 6 in the Tillamook State Forest (see map below, somewhere in the circled area). There was a car infront of us, and one behind. Winding road following a river in the woods.
Not my definition of empty, hot, straight and deserted. LOL. 🙂
As for the definition, it was two separate occurrences of hard braking out of nowhere, the car infront of us was at the same distance as it has been. The braking was hard enough to scare the sh** out of my passengers. After the second time, I turned of cruise.

Screenshot_20230718_125425_Maps~2.jpg
 
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Not sure. When it happened last to me (last Friday), it was around 70 degrees F, on Hwy 6 in the Tillamook State Forest (see map below, somewhere in the circled area). There was a car infront of us, and one behind. Winding road following a river in the woods.
Not my definition of empty, hot, straight and deserted. LOL. 🙂
As for the definition, it was two separate occurrences of hard braking out of nowhere, the car infront of us was at the same distance as it has been. The braking was hard enough to scare the sh** out of my passengers. After the second time, I turned of cruise.

View attachment 957461
That is how it works with vision which is all over the map.

It affects different drivers differently.

Tesla Vision will work great in the future but not now.
 
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Tacc
I am sure they would like to, but given that it has been an issue >5 years they clearly can't for some reason.
I believe it is because Musk doesn’t want his engineers looking at what others do, as it’s “not invented here”. This thinking worked worked in the early days, but they are WAY behind now in FSD now. I think I saw an unbiased review that put 5 or 6 car makers ahead of them. They used to be the leader.

Pretty bad that the Subaru with Eyesight that I traded in had Adaptive Cruise Control that worked ALL the time unless there was mud on the windshield covering the cameras(very rare), while my way more expensive Model Y doesn’t. Don’t get me wrong, I love the car, but they need to get better at smart driving functions.

Tesla currently is the best value EV with the 3 and Y. But that may change in the years to come and these software defects could hurt market share.
 
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I believe it is because Musk doesn’t want his engineers looking at what others do, as it’s “not invented here”. This thinking worked worked in the early days, but they are WAY behind now in FSD now. I think I saw an unbiased review that put 5 or 6 car makers ahead of them. They used to be the leader.
I've always adhered to the notion that if you're responsible for innovating in a space, you shouldn't be relying on other people's innovations. So it may not be that it's "not invented here" so much as that it's "invented somewhere else". By using somebody else's results, the experience of incrementally learning about the problem space is lost. That incremental learning experience can provide a lot of material for innovation.

In the end, Tesla may end up exactly where everyone else is, but delayed because of a refusal to spend too much time looking at literature from the competition. Or they may end up with something uniquely interesting and valuable. I dislike the herd mentality, so I applaud what Tesla is doing. It's certainly consistent with Elon's general approach of being disruptive to prevailing industry practices.
 
I've always adhered to the notion that if you're responsible for innovating in a space, you shouldn't be relying on other people's innovations. So it may not be that it's "not invented here" so much as that it's "invented somewhere else". By using somebody else's results, the experience of incrementally learning about the problem space is lost. That incremental learning experience can provide a lot of material for innovation.

In the end, Tesla may end up exactly where everyone else is, but delayed because of a refusal to spend too much time looking at literature from the competition. Or they may end up with something uniquely interesting and valuable. I dislike the herd mentality, so I applaud what Tesla is doing. It's certainly consistent with Elon's general approach of being disruptive to prevailing industry practices.
The theory that "if birds can flap to fly, we can invent a machine to do the same too" has not been new.

The theory that "if human can use 2 eyes, we can invent the same for machine too" is not new either.

Those theories have been disastrous in reality: a flying machine does not flap its wings.

Tesla eyes are still produce phantom brakes.

Tesla got rid of USS also results in spitting out all kinds of distances all over the map, so random to be trusted.

Tesla Vision is just like an advancement in flapping wings: Yes, the wings will flap much better in the next firmware and the upcoming HW5 update, better and better every time, but it will never fly!
 
I've always adhered to the notion that if you're responsible for innovating in a space, you shouldn't be relying on other people's innovations. So it may not be that it's "not invented here" so much as that it's "invented somewhere else". By using somebody else's results, the experience of incrementally learning about the problem space is lost. That incremental learning experience can provide a lot of material for innovation.

In the end, Tesla may end up exactly where everyone else is, but delayed because of a refusal to spend too much time looking at literature from the competition. Or they may end up with something uniquely interesting and valuable. I dislike the herd mentality, so I applaud what Tesla is doing. It's certainly consistent with Elon's general approach of being disruptive to prevailing industry practices.
Having led product design teams for 40 years, you always bring everything to the table. Too often younger engineers don’t look at existing designs, and older engineers can be stuck on “we’ve always done it that way.” All approaches need to be brainstormed and considered. During recruiting, we looked for engineers who had a broad range of experience including much outside their speciality. Worked well and kept us the leader in our field.

IMHO, Elon “used” to be disruptive. Now he seems the “Chief Twit“(pun intended) perhaps if he stuck with the businesses he knows….
 
I haven’t had a single phantom braking event in 2500 miles on my HW4 model S. I’m in a few threads with a few other HW4 owners on both single stack FSDb and EAP. Haven’t really seen it discussed might be because they haven’t had an event either.
I have 1200 miles on my new model Y HW4. I've had zero phantom braking. I have FSD, but for now it's crippled down to EAP.