Hydrogen vs. Battery

[dpeilow]

This is funny: How the Mercedes-Benz F-Cell left us both stranded and impressed Autoblog Green


Check out the entourage. I don't recall Tesla having such a convoy on their global tour.

 

[Jaff]

Well David, it is a Benz...maybe for the price, you get a free entourage (or need one) for the first 25,000 kms or 12 months...:wink: ...an amazing show of faith in their wares, eh? :biggrin:

 

[AndrewBissell]

Courtesy of EV World wire I found this story:

Money runs dry for P.E.I hydrogen busses - Sympatico.ca Autos

It recounts how at a cost of around $0.5 million (Canadian) Prince Edward Island put in two hydrogen powered busses ... and then found they couldn't afford to fuel them. Turns out that hydrogen is a bit expensive and has to be brought in at some additional cost.

And then there was the two hour refuelling time every morning ....

 

[AndrewBissell]

Elaborating David's comment about the Benz F-cell world tour, I am really struck with the contrast with Tesla.

When they drove around the world one guy did it, and he was "living off the land" as far as refuelling goes - wherever there is an electric socket. Whereas Benz need 400 fuel drops pre-positioned by Linde. So spontaneous!

The Tesla adaptor between the socket and the car is a UMC that can be easily carried in the car. The Benz equivalent is a "portable" refuelling station to pressurise the pre-positioned hydrogen, which can be air-freighted and then moved in a van. So compact!

I note that the vehicle range between refuels is nearly identical.

I really fail to see how this is positive for fuel cells in any way at all.

Oh - and the final excuse - that its all about demonstrating that fuel cells are ideal urban runabouts ... sorry - BEVs are much better at that duty.

 

[dpeilow]

Scientists Turn to Unlikely Source for Hydrogen: Urine | Gas 2.0


Insert your own jokes here _________________ .

 

[vfx]

Insert your own jokes here _________________ .

Piss off!

 

[JRP3]

Piss poor idea.

 

[Iz]

Might be better off just sticking a miles long straw into space and sucking in the hydrogen. No conversion necessary and there is 13.6 billion light years worth :biggrin:

 

[vfx]

Might be better off just sticking a miles long straw into space and sucking in the hydrogen. ...

From Uranus?

 

[TEG]

Scientists Turn to Unlikely Source for Hydrogen: Urine | Gas 2.0


Insert your own jokes here _________________ .

Have fuel cell, will travel!

It will be a complete about face for road trips:
"OK, family - everyone drink as much as you can and DON'T use the restroom before we head out."

 

[zack]

EVs, urine trouble now!

 

[vfx]

A car that makes you go Weeeeeeee!

 

[TEG]

Scientists Turn to Unlikely Source for Hydrogen: Urine | Gas 2.0
Insert your own jokes here _________________ .

"Gotta git me one of them your-a-pee-in' cars."

 

[vfx]

Nissan presents the new "LEAK".

 

[JRP3]

This thread is going down the toilet.

 

[Doug_G]

Urine the money!

 

[vfx]

Look at that car whizzen by1

 

[doug]

They should collect some natural gas while they're at it.

 

[vfx]

Assuming someone will separate out the yellow stream...

This one is fun:
Hydrogen Is Down, But Not Out | Autopia | Wired.com

 

[doug]

Exclusive: Daimler's Director of Fuel Cells and Battery-Drive Explains Cautious Approach | PluginCars.com

You don't even have to read between the lines here to see that Daimler is trying to promote fuel cells while handicapping their EV offerings.

And of course there's this same double talk:

Does the issue of net energy gain or loss to produce the hydrogen concern you?

Yes, the same thing concerns me with electricity. In the European Union’s regular electricity mix, the battery electric car is worse than the hydrogen fuel cell car when you make the hydrogen from natural gas, because there’s still a lot of fossil energy used to make electricity,

The efficiency of the battery electric car per se is higher because you don’t have so many conversion steps. Everything depends on how you make the electricity. Eventually, we want to make hydrogen from renewable sources, like solar, wind, hydro, and biomass. And then you have a very low CO2 level and you have all the advantages of cars today: long range, three-minute refueling, and it can be applied to even city buses, so very big vehicles.

As usual, siting this special case where HFCV can be cleaner than EV (i.e. H2 from natural gas, electricity from coal) and then talking about getting your H2 via renewables without admitting that EV beats HFCV here by a factor of 3.