I Can Think Faster than Auto Pilot

[drtimhill]

What AP lacks right now is properly implemented abstract thinking as well as an ability to read further ahead than it’s next move. When I’m driving with purpose I’m generally 2 steps ahead and have a bailout plan in mind should SHTF ahead of me.

Good luck waiting for that.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Yeah I’m not holding my breath which is why I’ve stated that the only reason I bought FSD with my car was because of the massive discount I got on it.

 

[Jenremoved]

Keep digging man, you'll be at GF3 in no time

A yellow line is not a divided highway. At all.

The term (and limited access) have actual legal meanings in federal highway code.

Your picture is not a place AP is intended to be used. Per the owners manual.



Also waiting for your apology in repeatedly insisting the wording I was citing wasn't in YOUR manual when it clearly is and I even provided you a picture containing the exact words I posted.

Some people really don’t want to read that they’re using AP and FSD the wrong way. The NHTSA’s report on the Florida death went so far as to quote Tesla corporate saying it should only be used on limited access highways and never where there is the potential for cross traffic.

 

[IceIceBaby]

Some people really don’t want to read that they’re using AP and FSD the wrong way. The NHTSA’s report on the Florida death went so far as to quote Tesla corporate saying it should only be used on limited access highways and never where there is the potential for cross traffic.

Uhm... Limited access highways I guess is up for interpretation?? It's not like some roads are marked "limited access highways".

 

[IceIceBaby]

I see this same kind of issue when two humans are in the car. The driver may feel well in control, but the passenger is on pins and needles wondering if the driver is seeing the same danger signs as they do.

Not unusual for my GF to be pressing her imaginary brake pedal when she sees something I might have also seen, but dismissed. Also common for me to experience anxiety whe she is driving, as she reacts differently and drives differently than I do.

Not unusual for a human driver and autopilot to perceive two different levels of threat.

Example...her...You almost hit that dog. Me...What dog?

When you are driving you are responsible and only your interpretation matters. For instance the passenger may freak out over something you slam on the brakes because you trust their judgement over your own (while you're driving) thus causing an accident.

 

[Jenremoved]

Uhm... Limited access highways I guess is up for interpretation?? It's not like some roads are marked "limited access highways".

It’s been interpreted by both Tesla and the NHTSA to mean roads where there is not the possibility of cross traffic. Beyond the fact that AP/FSD has caused a number of fatalities because of misuse on roads with cross traffic, it makes sense to be conservative in one’s interpretation of that phrase because these features are “beta” and clearly still have issues on limited access highways.

 

[IceIceBaby]

It’s been interpreted by both Tesla and the NHTSA to mean roads where there is not the possibility of cross traffic. Beyond the fact that AP/FSD has caused a number of fatalities because of misuse on roads with cross traffic, it makes sense to be conservative in one’s interpretation of that phrase because these features are “beta” and clearly still have issues on limited access highways.

Then it's just cruise control.

 

[Knightshade]

Then it's just cruise control.

...no?

Cruise control just holds a fixed speed and nothing else.

AP (and EAP or current FSD) do a ton more than that.

But only in the domain they're actually intended to be used.

Which is limited access divided roads like freeways.

 

[IceIceBaby]

...no?

Cruise control just holds a fixed speed and nothing else.

AP (and EAP or current FSD) do a ton more than that.

But only in the domain they're actually intended to be used.

Which is limited access divided roads like freeways.

Ok fine. Adaptive cruise control

 

[Knightshade]

Ok fine. Adaptive cruise control

Ok, but they do more than that too. Autosteer, lane changes, Nav on AP... all of which work great when used in the places they're actually intended to be used...

 

[drtimhill]

Yeah I’m not holding my breath which is why I’ve stated that the only reason I bought FSD with my car was because of the massive discount I got on it.

Er, that can't have been the only reason. I mean, if yo think something is worthless, then you won't spend ANYTHING on it.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Er, that can't have been the only reason. I mean, if yo think something is worthless, then you won't spend ANYTHING on it.

Well: All or nothing then I’d rather have all. But if I’d paid anywhere near full boat FSD would have been the first thing to get the heave-ho.

 

[IceIceBaby]

Except, not. Because the manual doesn't stop at page 91.



No, it says exactly the opposite

I even circled the section in red, that you repeatedly lied and claimed was not in your manual

That you've yet to admit you were wrong about or apologize for accusing me of quoting something that wasn't there.




That's not nonsense, it's the legal definition of the term



ohim/hpmsmanl Chapter 2: Definitions - HPMS Field Manual - FHWA



So, once again, you claim is fundamentally, factually, wrong


The road you showed a picture of is not a divided highway

It is not the type of road AP is intended to be used on

You seem incredibly disinterested in what the terms you keep misunderstanding actually mean and just keep doubling down on making it clear you've no idea what you're talking about.

It's kind of embarrassing for you.

You having fun yet? Lol

 

[IceIceBaby]

A few things

1) The cost of the "brains" on an aircraft are orders of magnitude greater than a Tesla (and supplemented by an air traffic control system tracking all other vehicles in the sky around you)

2) There's massively less traffic in the sky

3) Even then- collisions still happen....

4) Also most aircraft autopilot systems work much like Teslas- they are aids to the operator, require active supervision, and do NOT replace the operator and can NOT perform all operator functions (and thus are only used in specific operational domains- like level flight cruising).


That last has been cause of much debate, with us folks who've actually flown aircraft pointing out the name of AP is perfectly accurate for the type of system it is... and folks who think "Autopilot means I can go to the back of the plane and take a nap!" because of TV/movies disagreeing.

I'd like to point out that flying is far safer than driving.

 

[Knightshade]

I'd like to point out that flying is far safer than driving.

and driving on AP is far safer than driving without

 

[cabbie]

As for now, eyeballs and a brain work best. There are lots of deer around where I live and if I see one galloping towards the highway I can judge if I will need to slow down or not. AP won't see the deer until it is at the road and won't look for others (they tend to travel in groups). FSD and AP need to be able to see beyond the road and need to anticipate what will happen. Will the car identify a turtle or some other small animal crossing the road and avoid it? What about potholes? FSD is a work in progress and I like to think I am helping to make FSD a future reality.

 

[IceIceBaby]

and driving on AP is far safer than driving without

According to many, it's not.

 

[raptor5244]

According to many, it's not.

Of course it's not, at least not yet anyway. Well, maybe it is safer to use AP than to drive blindfolded. However, it does a nice job of dynamic cruise control and keeping the car in the lane, except for all the complaints from folks about it weaving back and forth in a lane. Other than that, it is the driver that makes the decisions such as staying out of other blind spots, avoiding sitting behind trucks with flying debris, avoiding potholes and other junk in the road, identifying and anticipating potential issues such as weather conditions, slick roads, etc. If left up to AP I am sure I would have had problems already.

 

[thedm96]

Yup, they could, but I certainly don't want AP to depend on straight paint lines to prevent whiplash when driving.

Funny you should say that. I was driving around Atlanta a few days ago near construction at the junction of I-285 and GA-400 (south) and the road line painted on the road was clearly done by mistake. it's like the paint truck picked up the roller a little, and pulled off to the curb but somehow there was a very light center line marking left behind that veered sharply off the road.

The car turned HARD to follow the incorrect line and I had to quickly jerk it back onto the road. It was quite a scary experience but luckily I was only doing ~40mph. There was a car in front of me so I don't know why NoA didnt take that into account when considering forward pathing.

 

[Knightshade]

According to many, it's not.

Then those folks are provably wrong.

Tesla has published data on this for a while.

Tesla Vehicle Safety Report

In the 4th quarter, we registered one accident for every 3.07 million miles driven in which drivers had Autopilot engaged. For those driving without Autopilot but with our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 2.10 million miles driven. For those driving without Autopilot and without our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 1.64 million miles driven. By comparison, NHTSA’s most recent data shows that in the United States there is an automobile crash every 479,000 miles

In other words the accident rate on Autopilot, compared to the entire fleet of all US cars of all brands, is about 6 times lower

Even compared to just Teslas it's roughly 1.5-2 times lower depending if the non-AP folks had active safety features on or not.