I Can Think Faster than Auto Pilot

[CrayZ1]

It really doesn't matter what the manual says. AP+FSD doesn't even support stop signs.

 

[Knightshade]

It never says it isn't intended for use on highways. It only says it is intended for use on roads with limited entry and exit ramps. This qualifies. There is also a center divider, called yellow lines.

Keep digging man, you'll be at GF3 in no time

A yellow line is not a divided highway. At all.

The term (and limited access) have actual legal meanings in federal highway code.

Your picture is not a place AP is intended to be used. Per the owners manual.



Also waiting for your apology in repeatedly insisting the wording I was citing wasn't in YOUR manual when it clearly is and I even provided you a picture containing the exact words I posted.

 

[SSonnentag]

It really doesn't matter what the manual says. AP+FSD doesn't even support stop signs.

Or speed limit signs, which would be vastly more useful that stop signs at the current rate of FSD development.

 

[SSonnentag]

Keep digging man, you'll be at GF3 in no time

A yellow line is not a divided highway. At all.

The term (and limited access) have actual legal meanings in federal highway code.

Your picture is not a place AP is intended to be used. Per the owners manual.



Also waiting for your apology in repeatedly insisting the wording I was citing wasn't in YOUR manual when it clearly is and I even provided you a picture containing the exact words I posted.

My manual clearly states AP is intended for highway use (page 91). Period. Page 92 further illustrates that the particular highway I posted qualified as conditions AP is designed to work under. If you're going to insist that "center divider" means concrete barriers or some such nonsense, you might as well toss AP altogether as only people living in crowded cities every have those conditions, and AP is stupid to use under those conditions for other reasons.

 

[ElectricIAC]

What AP lacks right now is properly implemented abstract thinking as well as an ability to read further ahead than it’s next move. When I’m driving with purpose I’m generally 2 steps ahead and have a bailout plan in mind should SHTF ahead of me.

 

[Knightshade]

My manual clearly states AP is intended for highway use (page 91). Period.

Except, not. Because the manual doesn't stop at page 91.

Page 92 further illustrates that the particular highway I posted qualified as conditions AP is designed to work under.

No, it says exactly the opposite

I even circled the section in red, that you repeatedly lied and claimed was not in your manual

That you've yet to admit you were wrong about or apologize for accusing me of quoting something that wasn't there.

If you're going to insist that "center divider" means concrete barriers or some such nonsense

That's not nonsense, it's the legal definition of the term



ohim/hpmsmanl Chapter 2: Definitions - HPMS Field Manual - FHWA

Divided Highway: A multi-lane facility with a curbed or positive barrier median or a median that is 1.2 meters (4 feet) or wider.

So, once again, you claim is fundamentally, factually, wrong


The road you showed a picture of is not a divided highway

It is not the type of road AP is intended to be used on

You seem incredibly disinterested in what the terms you keep misunderstanding actually mean and just keep doubling down on making it clear you've no idea what you're talking about.

It's kind of embarrassing for you.

 

[raptor5244]

What AP lacks right now is properly implemented abstract thinking as well as an ability to read further ahead than it’s next move. When I’m driving with purpose I’m generally 2 steps ahead and have a bailout plan in mind should SHTF ahead of me.

Bingo. This is the main issue that folks will have with accepting and trusting AP. Another way it is described is that you have to closely monitor/babysit the system to the point where it is less stressful/work to just drive yourself. Where AP shines right now is with its state of the art cruise control and autosteer for highway use. These features actually reduce some drivers fatigue on highway trips.

The scary part is when when folks start trusting AP to reliably stop at lights when they add this feature. How does the car react to a yellow light? Does it know if the roads are slick or dry for a hard stop? The point is that there is no “Full” in Full Self driving and there won’t be for the foreseeable future. But that message would not sell too many FSD software packages.

 

[Jenlinking]

But don’t planes operate on radar and can anticipate multi directional objects nearby and speed these are traveling? Obviously not a physicist...

 

[Jenlinking]

AP/FSD is a work in progress development effort. It does remind us how efficient the human brain is at making subconscious complex physics calculations as we drive. Combined with great pattern recognition, we know how much to brake, when to change lanes, we stay out of others blind spots, avoid potholes, make split second decisions regarding traffic lights and on and on. IMO, the AP (computer) is good at the mundane stuff like maintaining a specific speed or keeping us in a lane. The complex stuff and all the decisions that need to be made in city driving are a long ways away from being fully autonomous. IMO, I don't know if it actually is realistic until all the other vehicles have this tech and are part of some networked grid so they are aware of one another.

It is fun to be a part of the evolving technology though.

We have a semi autonomous Mercedes that never does this kind of bsh!t...we’ve had it randomly throw us a collision alert when nothing was there (and almost stop my heart), but never just flat out slam on the brakes almost giving us whiplash!

 

[Jenlinking]

When you see this coming, be ready to tap the accelerator to cancel braking.

Uh, I’d rather just not use AP/FSD anywhere a car may turning left (or right for that matter) into my path... Which is like..what is it...driving a regular driver driven car? Don’t get me wrong I love AP on highways, but in the city...NFW.

 

[Jenlinking]

Good learning experience - apparently I wanted to believe my M3 could do anything I’m very proud of her, but alas as an early adopter/early majority...I’ve come to the realization she has limits (and I have to believe other manufacturers, if not Telsa, can do better than this...oops I just meant to think that.)

 

[Jenlinking]

Exactly! Thanks for sharing your thoughts

 

[Jenlinking]

**Can’t Wait!!**

 

[Jenlinking]

Except I just got effing whiplash because you thought that effing car was turning 30 seconds before it actually effing turned....Ugh...

 

[Jenlinking]

Because AP is explicitly not intended to be used there

AP is intended to be used on limited-access divided freeways where all traffic is going the same direction, and entry/exit is controlled by things like on/off ramps.

No intersections, no cross or 2-way traffic, no turn lanes.

This is all covered in the owners manual explaining AP.



Thanks - was apparently thinking the car was just magic

 

[drtimhill]

This is a known issue, and there are videos online where it has caused wrecks. Despite such balderdash we repeatedly see posted here, Tesla's cruise control (TACC) is not to be limited to controlled access roads. It can be set as low as 18MPH, and controlled access roads have minimum speeds of 40MPH. Tesla does state that it is not for use on city streets where traffic conditions are constantly changing, but there are a great many roads where people can turn left in front of you. For example, the difference between a freeway and a highway that a freeway is controlled access, and highways are not. Tesla's owners manual SPECIFICALLY STATES that it is "mainly to be used on dry, straight roads, such as freeways and HIGHWAYS."

The OP is unclear if they mean TACC or Autosteer, so which part of the manual is material is equally unclear. If they were using Autosteer, then no its not balderdash as the manual is very clear indeed: "Autosteer is intended for use only on highways and limited-access roads with a fully attentive driver.". If it was TACC only, then while it does say that TACC can be used as you state, its also says "Traffic-Aware Cruise Control is designed for your driving comfort and convenience and is not a collision warning or avoidance system. It is your responsibility to stay alert, drive safely, and be in control of the vehicle at all times."

Given that, I'm not clear on how TACC "has caused wrecks." Unless you mean that in those cases the driver using it has not read the manual, did not bother to pay attention to the road, got in a crash, and tried to deflect the blame to the car. Perish the thought.

 

[raptor5244]

Good learning experience - apparently I wanted to believe my M3 could do anything I’m very proud of her, but alas as an early adopter/early majority...I’ve come to the realization she has limits (and I have to believe other manufacturers, if not Telsa, can do better than this...oops I just meant to think that.)

Yeah, I wish they would refer to these features as drivers aids or assistants. The problem with marketing the system as FSD is that you get a large percentage of folks that are scared of the car and will say things like “I am not ready for the car to drive itself yet” so they just avoid the brand altogether. Then on the other end of the spectrum you have folks that are gung-ho for the technology only to be let down by its current limitations. IMO, they should split the difference and market the specific assistance and safety features and the value they add to the driving experience.

 

[raptor5244]

Except I just got effing whiplash because you thought that effing car was turning 30 seconds before it actually effing turned....Ugh...

Sometimes I will turn AP on just for kicks while the family is in the car with me and within 30 seconds I will hear, “stop, turn it off, your making me sick”. I say, “it is not me!” “We are teaching Tessie how to drive. We need to feed the neural network!”

 

[Knightshade]

But don’t planes operate on radar and can anticipate multi directional objects nearby and speed these are traveling? Obviously not a physicist...

A few things

1) The cost of the "brains" on an aircraft are orders of magnitude greater than a Tesla (and supplemented by an air traffic control system tracking all other vehicles in the sky around you)

2) There's massively less traffic in the sky

3) Even then- collisions still happen....

4) Also most aircraft autopilot systems work much like Teslas- they are aids to the operator, require active supervision, and do NOT replace the operator and can NOT perform all operator functions (and thus are only used in specific operational domains- like level flight cruising).


That last has been cause of much debate, with us folks who've actually flown aircraft pointing out the name of AP is perfectly accurate for the type of system it is... and folks who think "Autopilot means I can go to the back of the plane and take a nap!" because of TV/movies disagreeing.

 

[CrayZ1]

But don’t planes operate on radar and can anticipate multi directional objects nearby and speed these are traveling? Obviously not a physicist...

AFAIK, modern TCAS (anti-collision) on airliners do not automatically avoid collisions, they simply warn the cockpit (CLIMB-CLIMB-CLIMB). They rely on both vehicles transmitting their data.

Commercial planes react much slower and never stop.