I live in a condo. The main breaker is only 70A. Now what? [Resolved]

[andy92782]

To clarify within the walls is not common area the feed wire to his sub panel is ...I will defer to OP but that is typical in most HOAs that have a shared main panel ..to do work on a sub panel typically needs HOA approval

After talking to my "cool" board member a few minutes ago, neither me nor him are totally clear on what's common and what's not. He seems to think the HOA doesn't own the shared panel, but anything "shared" leads me to believe I'm not the only player involved.

In this case, the building consists of four side-by-side, two-story townhomes, arranged in a 1-2-3-4 configuration. Nobody above or below. I'm in unit "2". The main, shared panel is located on the outer wall to the right of unit "4". That means the feed line between the main panel and my garage subpanel goes through the walls of units 3 and 4 before it gets to mine. If that wire isn't big enough then there's literally no way I can upgrade the 70A breaker on the shared panel to anything higher without spending literally thousands of dollars to run the new wire and re-do drywall, texture and paint in units 3-4 (and my own). It could be done right - maybe - but why bother? It'd be easier for me to just sell the place and move somewhere else more friendly to EV ownership.

 

[brkaus]

I really wish that'd work for me but it won't.

One of the key advantages - in my mind, anyway - to owning an EV is the convenience of charging at home and rarely, if ever having to charge at a public location. If I can't install a 240V outlet in my garage, I can't do this. The Santa Ana supercharger is only ~7 miles from where I live but that can often be a 30 minute drive given how jammed the traffic here. Add charge time and we're talking the better part of two hours to get a "full tank". No bueno. Ugh.

Definitely agree charging at home is key.

I have 14-50. I drive a good bit on an S (lower range for same charge), and I set my car to charge at 20a most of the time. They make adaptors for 20a/240v as well. All LED lights also saves a lot of amps.

Otherwise, Could you put an A/B switch on the AC unit since you use it pretty infrequently?

And, if the electrician is willing to put in an outlet. Pull the permits, etc. maybe they see something the internet does not? Esp if a few are willing to do it.

 

[P85_DA]

there's literally no way I can upgrade the 70A breaker on the shared panel to anything higher without spending literally thousands o

Has anyone confirmed the main panel can’t take a 100a circuit ? It seems enough capacity is there from the main service ..if u have at least 3awg going to your sub panel u can probably pull off ..I see no reason why you can’t put a 100a main breaker in that panel and still have the overall panel be code compliant

 

[andy92782]

Has anyone confirmed the main panel can’t take a 100a circuit ? It seems enough capacity is there from the main service ..if u have at least 3awg going to your sub panel u can probably pull off ..I see no reason why you can’t put a 100a main breaker in that panel and still have the overall panel be code compliant

Nobody's confirmed yet. The problem is that I'm on an airplane tomorrow morning and I won't be back in town until literally the night before I was scheduled to take delivery of the car. I don't have the ability to deal with this right now.

I really hope I didn't just eat $2,500 but it's starting to look like I did...

 

[Lloyd]

I would think that you are able to put a 30 amp breaker to charge at 24 amps continuous while charging at night. Reduce your lighting load with LED's,

 

[brkaus]

Nobody's confirmed yet. The problem is that I'm on an airplane tomorrow morning and I won't be back in town until literally the night before I was scheduled to take delivery of the car. I don't have the ability to deal with this right now.

I really hope I didn't just eat $2,500 but it's starting to look like I did...

They will give you the $2500 back, if the contract matches the recent ones and no VIN assigned.

If you have a friendly board member and an electrician that will put in a 20a-30a outlet with permits, not sure the issue?

What is the CA law on liability insurance for EV charging? What happens if you put in a 20a outlet for your pottery kiln hobby and plug in the car when your not making clay vases?

 

[jimmyz80]

Nobody's confirmed yet. The problem is that I'm on an airplane tomorrow morning and I won't be back in town until literally the night before I was scheduled to take delivery of the car. I don't have the ability to deal with this right now.

I really hope I didn't just eat $2,500 but it's starting to look like I did...

It's fall, you could always unplug the AC compressor and use that breaker (and the new load calc headroom) to buy 6+ months of time to figure out a final plan.

 

[P85_DA]

the CA law on liability insurance for EV charging?

Only for common HOA ..SB209 “The bill would impose other responsibilities on the homeowner, including maintaining an umbrella liability coverage policy of $1,000,000 that names the common interest development as an additional insured. An association that violates the bill’s provisions would be liable for damages and a civil penalty, as specified.”

 

[SSedan]

In a mild climate with modest driving and backup superchargers 120volt is plausible. Maybe a simple 20amp 240volt.
Just so folks don't get the wrong idea cold weather is a deal breaker.

 

[andy92782]

Only for common HOA ..SB209 “The bill would impose other responsibilities on the homeowner, including maintaining an umbrella liability coverage policy of $1,000,000 that names the common interest development as an additional insured. An association that violates the bill’s provisions would be liable for damages and a civil penalty, as specified.”

Perhaps some day the laws will be updated to reflect the evolving needs of homeowners as EVs become more prevalent, but I can't think of any sane person who would want to have to deal with the above.

 

[P85_DA]

Perhaps some day the laws will be updated to reflect the evolving needs of homeowners as EVs become more prevalent, but I can't think of any sane person who would want to have to deal with the above.

Lol I know the liability insurance requirement is stupid

 

[Richt]

Gawd guys, there is so much bullshit advice on these forums. Stop scaring people for God's sake.

You guys guys do realize that with a 30A 240V charging circuit, the OP would only use it at night when little else is being used, right? I wouldn't have any problem with putting in a double 30/30 240V breaker on this panel.

If that gets your panties in a twist, there is always the option to pay $1000 and buy a load restrictor for EV charging (DCC Technology - Energy Management System for Electric Vehicle DCC CONDO AND DCC HOME) which will limit load to the EV depending on how loaded the panel is (it monitors panel load).

You could indeed look at replacing that panel with a new 100A or 125A panel. It wouldn't change anything since your breaker feed is still only 70A, but it would give others on this forum peace of mind.

Personally, I'd go with the 30A/240V circuit (you'll have a NEMA 14-30 receptacle, or you could hardwire a Tesla Wall Connector).

 

[NathanielHrnblwr]

First, I don't see anything in the main panel pic that says "70". Is it behind the black cover on the meters? Second, that doesn't mean that breaker can't simply be replaced with a larger one. An electrician would be able to tell. Unfortunately, this thread seems to have more fright than fact since there isn't a lot of information to go on.

OP: Calm down, take your vacation, and line up a few electricians to come by when you return. You may have more options than is apparent here. An electrician may be able to put in an A/B switch for that 30a in a subpanel which would allow either your charging outlet or AC to be on but not both at the same time. That may be sufficient to meet code and get you by since A/C isn't needed often where you're at.

Don't worry about Tesla and delivery date. You can always push it out a week or so if need be. Worst case they assign your car to someone else and you can either wait for another match or get a refund then.

Don't jump to conclusions with an artificial deadline of tomorrow and refund now. There isn't enough info here to make an educated decision.

Tesla or not, you probably want to also ask about replacing that sub panel with a better unit. That alone is worth having electricians come out for opinions and quotes.

 

[juliusa]

Personally, I'd go with the 30A/240V circuit

Yep, makes sense - done by a licensed electrician.

Unless you plan on being there for many years, I would first try charging on existing 120v in the garage (5-15 or better would be 5-20) and see how that worked out. People drive a lot less than they think, and are parked in the garage a lot more than they think.

 

[andy92782]

First, I don't see anything in the main panel pic that says "70". Is it behind the black cover on the meters? Second, that doesn't mean that breaker can't simply be replaced with a larger one. An electrician would be able to tell. Unfortunately, this thread seems to have more fright than fact since there isn't a lot of information to go on.

OP: Calm down, take your vacation, and line up a few electricians to come by when you return. You may have more options than is apparent here. An electrician may be able to put in an A/B switch for that 30a in a subpanel which would allow either your charging outlet or AC to be on but not both at the same time. That may be sufficient to meet code and get you by since A/C isn't needed often where you're at.

Don't worry about Tesla and delivery date. You can always push it out a week or so if need be. Worst case they assign your car to someone else and you can either wait for another match or get a refund then.

Don't jump to conclusions with an artificial deadline of tomorrow and refund now. There isn't enough info here to make an educated decision.

The 70A breakers are underneath those black panels next to the meters. Trust me, they're there.

Yes, I'm a bit panic'd but IMHO, justifiably so. The issue here is the $2,500. There is no need for me to gamble with that kind of money until I determine one way or another how difficult of a job it will be to upgrade the main breaker from 70A to 100A.

My plan is to cancel the order, then have a few electricians come out and inspect the property after I return from my trip. With any luck I'll be able to upgrade the main breaker to 100A, update the panel in my garage and install a 14-30 outlet on a new breaker. I'm sure Tesla would have no problem whatsoever restarting my order...

 

[brkaus]

The 70A breakers are underneath those black panels next to the meters. Trust me, they're there.

Yes, I'm a bit panic'd but IMHO, justifiably so. The issue here is the $2,500. There is no need for me to gamble with that kind of money until I determine one way or another how difficult of a job it will be to upgrade the main breaker from 70A to 100A.

My plan is to cancel the order, then have a few electricians come out and inspect the property after I return from my trip. With any luck I'll be able to upgrade the main breaker to 100A, update the panel in my garage and install a 14-30 outlet on a new breaker. I'm sure Tesla would have no problem whatsoever restarting my order...

Your also balancing the tax credit - with delivery this year or not.

 

[NathanielHrnblwr]

The 70A breakers are underneath those black panels next to the meters. Trust me, they're there.

Yes, I'm a bit panic'd but IMHO, justifiably so. The issue here is the $2,500. There is no need for me to gamble with that kind of money until I determine one way or another how difficult of a job it will be to upgrade the main breaker from 70A to 100A.

My plan is to cancel the order, then have a few electricians come out and inspect the property after I return from my trip. With any luck I'll be able to upgrade the main breaker to 100A, update the panel in my garage and install a 14-30 outlet on a new breaker. I'm sure Tesla would have no problem whatsoever restarting my order...

I don't mean to be critical but you already "gambled" that money when you confirmed your order without consulting an electrician on your charging options. As far as Tesla is concerned, you're already committed and cancelling today or in 2 weeks makes no difference regarding your refund. Ordering again in a week or two gambles $3750 of the Federal tax credit as Tesla states all orders before 10/15 are guaranteed to arrive before EOY, however orders after that date are not guaranteed to arrive before EOY. You won't be able to "restart" your order and keep your place in line.

Good luck with however you decide to proceed.

 

[NickFie]

Not a professional electrician, some thoughts.

Completely agree - at-home charging is a game-changer. This past weekend we stayed at a hotel with no EV charging nearby. Tesla store was only a few exits - about 10 minutes - away. Still it was PITA to drop off my wife, then spend an extra hour both nights to recharge. Now we're home. Wife's Model 3 is charging at full 48 Amps - it was below 50% when we left, didn't have a chance to plug it in. Just finished Step 1 - it's 11:00 PM, the 3 just hit its 80% target. BRB. Moved HPWC to S 100D. Set 45 Amp charge rate, will be at 80% before I start my commute. We were at 20% pulling into the driveway from the Boston weekend.

OP might be able to combine load from circuits on two 15-Amp breakers onto one 15- or 20-Amp breaker. This would work with circuits that primarily support lights. These were sized for incandescent lights and glass-gorilla TVs. Today's LEDs and CFLs draw only 25% of the current, allowing for somewhat brighter lights. This would reduce load factor and open up one or two slots.

If recalculated load would allow even 20 Amp/240-Volt service, that would be sufficient. I would suggest HPWC for greatest convenience. It can be configured for 15 Amps, 20 Amps and other values up to 100 Amps. Ask the electrician to set up HPWC connection so it could be replaced by NEMA outlet if OP moves.

Our model S 100D gets by with a dryer plug 30-Amp/240 Volt circuit when we vacation. We generally arrive with 15% - 20% charge level. Overnight recharge the first night is enough for several days. Recharge one or two nights before departure for 90% or 100% to start the 400-mile journey home. Only one Supercharger stop necessary, BTW.

 

[andy92782]

I don't mean to be critical but you already "gambled" that money when you confirmed your order without consulting an electrician on your charging options. As far as Tesla is concerned, you're already committed and cancelling today or in 2 weeks makes no difference regarding your refund. Ordering again in a week or two gambles $3750 of the Federal tax credit as Tesla states all orders before 10/15 are guaranteed to arrive before EOY, however orders after that date are not guaranteed to arrive before EOY. You won't be able to "restart" your order and keep your place in line.

Good luck with however you decide to proceed.

Yep, I gambled. I let my emotions get the best of me when test drove the car and went "Holy ****, this thing is awesome!!" I'm sure some of you can sympathize.

FYI - I placed the order for my car at 2pm this past Friday. Tesla called me less than two hours later saying I could pick up the car in a week. I seriously didn't think it would happen so quickly. Try to get the car before 12/31? Hah! I had to have them initially postpone it a few days because I was out of town! I seriously thought I'd have more time to figure this out.

 

[Cosmacelf]

You don’t need to upgrade your panel.