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If not a Tesla, then what would you get?
- Thread starter jpaz
- Start date
RobStark
Well-Known Member
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/734227573/overview/
The cheapest Model S within 100 miles of Phoenix is $46k, a base 60 kWh 2013 with 72k miles.
From Tesla you can get a 2014 S60 with 30k miles for $49.7k.
A year ago there were $32k Ses on tesla.com with over 100k miles for about 5 seconds.
The cheapest Model S within 100 miles of Phoenix is $46k, a base 60 kWh 2013 with 72k miles.
From Tesla you can get a 2014 S60 with 30k miles for $49.7k.
A year ago there were $32k Ses on tesla.com with over 100k miles for about 5 seconds.
Why not buy a used Toyota Rav4ev? It really is a Tesla SUV with 100 miles-ish range for $15k. Just find one with extended warranty bought by owner. A lot of end of lease have been coming in.... so prices have been down. This is the best time to get one of these unicorns.
This thing is even more rare than any EV out there.
This thing is even more rare than any EV out there.
seattlite2004
Active Member
For the wife...Bolt is perfect.
- It sits high, low window belt, great visibility, short and sits tall with lots of headroom.
- Lots of instant torque for passing and accel at any speed.
- Ride is ok...nice dampening of bumps...dBs are lower than Model 3 per Motor Trend.
- Great feature is the 360 deg surround and lower front camera when parking....easily able to park with all it situational awareness tools.
- Lots of space in the back even with rear seats up....more room with seats down...and if you need to carry large cargo which blocks the rearview mirror...the rearview mirror turns into a rear camera view screen (Premiere Trim).
- Very efficient 4.0 - 5.0 miles/kWh (250 - 200 w/mile) depending on how you drive.
- AND....one pedal driving...ohh....I DO LOVE THIS FEATURE!!!! I was skeptical at first..but once you get used to it...there is no turning back...cept maybe on a really long down hill...then coasting with foot off the accel is better.
david_42
Member
For anyone looking at a base Model 3, the 2019 Leaf will definitely be a good option as well. Especially if you care about some options.
But I don't think it will be a lot cheaper. So for anyone looking for something cheaper and range isn't the issue, leasing the current lower range Leaf would be a better idea. Or the Ioniq, which is also a great car and has a thermal management system for the hotter climates (but there are none available in Phoenix).
I've heard that used EVs in the US seem to be super cheap, but you loose all the incentives. Still, 12k for something that works just fine as a commuter is still good.
Olle
Active Member
Tesla is the only seriously meant EV, IMO.
If budget is the motivation to not get another Tesla, a used Leaf is an awesome city runabout. I have one and it has been fun to drive and 100% reliable, knock on wood. At around $9k for a good used one, no maintenance no gas and 8 year battery/drivetrain warranty I would say "good value" is an understatement
mid 2014 onwards is when they put in the good battery that doesn't degrade immediately (as the original Leafs did)
If budget is the motivation to not get another Tesla, a used Leaf is an awesome city runabout. I have one and it has been fun to drive and 100% reliable, knock on wood. At around $9k for a good used one, no maintenance no gas and 8 year battery/drivetrain warranty I would say "good value" is an understatement
mid 2014 onwards is when they put in the good battery that doesn't degrade immediately (as the original Leafs did)
The trouble is, even the "good" 24kWh battery isn't that great. And the newer 30kWh LEAF batteries seem to degrade quite quickly. I have no faith in Nissan's battery engineering. The only way I'd recommend that anyone purchase a LEAF is to buy it used, and cheap. Our 2011 LEAF has lost much of its original utility to us, but the resale value is so terrible that it's better for us to keep it and use it as a local-only "beater" car. I can drive it on nearby dirt roads, let kids eat in it, etc., without worrying.
I might eventually be interested in replacing our LEAF with a used Chevy Bolt, once the earlier Bolts have had time to depreciate further. A used Hyundai IONIQ EV might be another option. It's nice to have at least one modest, non-descript car in our household for those occasions when we'd rather not stand out. On the other hand, I'd sure appreciate having a Tesla pickup truck as our third vehicle, and it's tough to beat the safety of a Tesla...
Olle
Active Member
We are on the same page, that's why I specifically wrote a used Leaf. A new Leaf for 30k is a horrible value since it loses 70% first year. I paid $9k for a 1 year old Leaf and think that is a good value.
Since later model 24 kwh batteries don't immediately degrade I think they're ok for a $9k car! Heck, I don't even think you could buy 24 kWh worth of batteries for $9k, let alone a whole car with batteries included
Our two new Powerwalls were about $13,600, which included the Tesla Energy Gateway, a subpanel, the installation costs, and permitting. I also spent about $300 more to add a concrete pad to elevate the Powerwalls to protect them from people banging into them.
If we take the federal tax credit and no other incentives, the net cost is about $9700. That's for 27 kWh of capacity (much more than our LEAF's degraded battery!) with a good thermal management system, warranted at a minimum of 70% capacity over ten years, integrated into our home electrical system, with app-based control.
That used LEAF, on the other hand, comes with a battery that's already significantly degraded and will continue to lose capacity faster than desired. So, while I agree that it can be a good value, I don't see it as exactly a screamin' deal, either. I might be more inclined to steer budget-minded buyers to early Chevy Volts for maybe a few thousand dollars more.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
jvmoore1
Member
My wife was going between the Honda Clarity PHEV and the Niro PHEV.
Until she saw the Model 3 a couple weeks ago and talked to the associate. Her biggest concern was range. Between me showing her the trip planner on the model 3 that we would only have one stop between home and ATL and the associate said his wife was the same way until they actually owned one. She is now wanting a Tesla. So my current reservation may be going to her and i will hold out for the Model Y. lol
Olle
Active Member
Congrats on Powerwalls! Your setup sounds like a deal for sure.
You keep referring to 2011 Leaf, a model known for very severe battery degradation. Probably not a good deal, sure. I am talking about 2014 1/2 onward 24 kWh which I think is excellent value. The market was already used to the rock bottom resale of the degradation version when the Cameleon version (=the good Leaf battery) was quietly introduced. People who pay attention to this can score a screaming deal. Since some of the 2011, -12, -13 cars had their batteries replaced with cameleon batteries under warranty, these may be an ok deal too. 14 1/2, 15 and early 16 probably remains the ultimate deal though since you are already down around $9k and still have most of the juicy 8 year warranty left. In 2016, the 30 kWh Leaf was introduced, again a severly degrading battery, really cementing the Leafs rock bottom resale value and as the final nail in the coffin; 2018 Leaf Rapidgate. 2018 Nissan Leaf electric car: Is there a fast-charging problem?
source: Accelerated Reported Battery Capacity Loss in 30 kWh Variants of the Nissan Leaf
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i don't think the Ioniq EV has a TMS, my impression is that it is cabin air cooled via ducting and fans and fins (similar to iMiEV)
i know the Renault ZOE has a TMS, similar to ioniq it too is cabin air cooled, but has an additional local refrigerant loop to chill the air going into the Renault ZOE battery.
so Prius, Ioniq, EU e-golf, and LEAF are all essentially nil TMS.
Renault ZOE, GM Bolt, usa e-golf, Tesla are essentially TMS based.
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