Instead of Robot Chargers, WIRELESS!

[PluglessSteve]

Just down the road from you! If you are ever down here, or passing through, schedule a time to swing by our office, we'll show you a working Plugless unit. Thanks for your interest.

 

[mikeash]

Just down the road from you! If you are ever down here, or passing through, schedule a time to swing by our office, we'll show you a working Plugless unit. Thanks for your interest.

Thanks for that offer, I really appreciate it. I'll keep that in mind for next time I'm down that way.

 

[tanner]

Absolutely - if you haven't yet done so, make sure you contact us so we can give an opportunity to get on the pre-order early, or otherwise get updates from us - here: Dont See Your Vehicle? - Plugless Power

Done. How does the tax credit work?

 

[PluglessSteve]

It's the Alternative Fuel Infrastructure Tax Credit. 30% off any electrical vehicle charging costs, including EVSEs (like Plugless) and electrical work (parts and labor but not permitting) up to $1,000. It was reinstated for 2015 and carries through 2016. It's a true tax credit, meaning not a deductible but it shaves your total tax liability at the end of the year. (best to talk to a tax advisor) - there is a form that hasn't been updated yet.

 

[brucet999]

It's the Alternative Fuel Infrastructure Tax Credit. 30% off any electrical vehicle charging costs, including EVSEs (like Plugless) and electrical work (parts and labor but not permitting) up to $1,000. It was reinstated for 2015 and carries through 2016. It's a true tax credit, meaning not a deductible but it shaves your total tax liability at the end of the year. (best to talk to a tax advisor) - there is a form that hasn't been updated yet.

Thank you!

I didn't know about tax credit for the charging station I installed. Do you know whether such a tax credit would apply next year for upgrading?

 

[liuping]

Thank you!

I didn't know about tax credit for the charging station I installed. Do you know whether such a tax credit would apply next year for upgrading?

I believe the Alternative Fuel Infrastructure Tax Credit is affected by AMT, so many people do not qualify.

 

[JimmyAZ]

Given the choice of wireless and slow or plug in and super fast, I think everyone on the planet would choose the fast option every time.

 

[tanner]

I believe the Alternative Fuel Infrastructure Tax Credit is affected by AMT, so many people do not qualify.

What does "AMT" stand for & how do you find out whether you qualify?

 

[Caligula]

A. I'm loving the irony of this discussion on a forum dedicated to a car named after Tesla.

B. I bought a wireless "fast charger" from Samsung for my Note5. Worst 40 bucks I've ever spent and have gone back to wired charging.

 

[liuping]

What does "AMT" stand for & how do you find out whether you qualify?

Alternate Minimum Tax.

It kicks in at some point and various deductions get reduced or eliminate. You may not know if it effects you until you run your taxes for the year.

 

[romp]

The problem with wireless charging is not so much in efficiency, but in how much energy leaks out. Even if we're charging at 10kW with ~90% efficiency rate, this means we're leaking ~1kW into the environment around the car. For comparison: a typical microwave oven uses 1-1.5kW of power.

Assuming the frequencies used will be less than hundreds of kHz (typical phone charger operates in ~100-300kHz and uses up to ~5W; this will have to be lower frequency, more power), most of that energy will be dissipated in conductive materials, where it will produce eddy currents resulting in heating of the surface layer. Some part of the energy will cause dielectic heating in all other materials as well (work principle behind microwave ovens).

So yeah, I don't mind plugging it in every night.

 

[brucet999]

I believe the Alternative Fuel Infrastructure Tax Credit is affected by AMT, so many people do not qualify.

You don't want to "qualify". It is a punitive tax meant to make the investor class pay more; kicks in if you have lots of passive income.

 

[tanner]

The problem with wireless charging is not so much in efficiency, but in how much energy leaks out. Even if we're charging at 10kW with ~90% efficiency rate, this means we're leaking ~1kW into the environment around the car. For comparison: a typical microwave oven uses 1-1.5kW of power.

Assuming the frequencies used will be less than hundreds of kHz (typical phone charger operates in ~100-300kHz and uses up to ~5W; this will have to be lower frequency, more power), most of that energy will be dissipated in conductive materials, where it will produce eddy currents resulting in heating of the surface layer. Some part of the energy will cause dielectic heating in all other materials as well (work principle behind microwave ovens).

So yeah, I don't mind plugging it in every night.

I guess so.... Even if that's the case, doesn't seem like it would have a negative impact at all.

- - - Updated - - -

You don't want to "qualify". It is a punitive tax meant to make the investor class pay more; kicks in if you have lots of passive income.

Sounds like most people won't have to worry about it then.

 

[brucet999]

The problem with wireless charging is not so much in efficiency, but in how much energy leaks out. Even if we're charging at 10kW with ~90% efficiency rate, this means we're leaking ~1kW into the environment around the car. For comparison: a typical microwave oven uses 1-1.5kW of power.

Assuming the frequencies used will be less than hundreds of kHz (typical phone charger operates in ~100-300kHz and uses up to ~5W; this will have to be lower frequency, more power), most of that energy will be dissipated in conductive materials, where it will produce eddy currents resulting in heating of the surface layer. Some part of the energy will cause dielectic heating in all other materials as well (work principle behind microwave ovens).

So yeah, I don't mind plugging it in every night.

The wireless for Tesla is expected to deliver 6.6kW, not 10kW.

Efficiency is supposed to be 12% less than L2, so it must be losing 12% of energy before it reaches the charger, therefor consuming 7.5kW in order to deliver 6.6kW with the remainder converted to heat in the inductive hardware.

That being said, I wonder how that extra heat load would affect Tesla's battery temperature regulating system during charging? Probably adds extra loss in summer due to more than usual battery cooling but less battery heating required in winter.

 

[tanner]

The wireless for Tesla is expected to deliver 6.6kW, not 10kW.

Efficiency is supposed to be 12% less than L2, so it must be losing 12% of energy before it reaches the charger, therefor consuming 7.5kW in order to deliver 6.6kW with the remainder converted to heat in the inductive hardware.

That being said, I wonder how that extra heat load would affect Tesla's battery temperature regulating system during charging? Probably adds extra loss in summer due to more than usual battery cooling but less battery heating required in winter.

That's more like it. However, not all the heat will end up dispersing within the car, some will be generated by the pad too. Also, it will likely be nominal, as supercharging heats the battery too, much more so than wireless charging would.

 

[tanner]

Just wanted to bump this thread, I think the plugless will be very useful for AP-enabled cars!