This makes by far the most sense to me.I'm thinking all they need is:
1. Auto park/summon
2. The appropriate wall adaptor
3. The new front mount charge accessory.
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Instead of Robot Chargers, WIRELESS!
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Electric700
Active Member
I agree. About the efficiency loss of wireless charging systems, an article I read about that gives us some hope:
"Kalyan Siddabattula compared the power losses in a wired and wireless charging system and found that wireless chargers can be made as efficient as a wired charger when you integrate the charger functionality into the wireless power receiver electronics."
From Wireless Power Efficiency.
I still think that it would be great to have a Plugless Power system even with its current efficiency level for both the Model S and X. The system would be especially useful for people who live in condominiums with restrictions on outdoor wiring due to trip hazard regulations or other similar rules. Considering the inefficient gasoline-powered car or hybrid alternatives, an EV with Plugless Power would still be an excellent choice.
A couple of years ago, I read about a system like this that was being studied at a university in Germany. They had a pylon that you would place at the front of the car. You would then drive in and the bumper would touch the pylon and initiate charging. If you drove too far forward, it would bend back to prevent damage. It had many of the advantages of wireless charging and few of the disadvantages. Trying to find the article/video...
PluglessSteve
Member
Note - I work for Plugless. I'll wait for you to pull out your grains of salt (as you should). All set? As the only company in the world that has sold, installed and serviced wireless EV chargers AND in anticipation of our rollout of 6.6kW Plugless for Model S (very, very soon) here are a few bits of information to add to this discussion. We have assumed that, at least initially, the "snake" is a Supercharger solution, to be clear, this is our read we have no specific information. For our part, Plugless is designed without the up front and ongoing cost moving parts. Purchase will include installation of the fully reversible Plugless vehicle adapter on the Tesla, the current adapter is ~20lbs, the Tesla adapter is heavier but not by much. Plugless in it's current format (3.3kW) is ~7% less efficient than L1 charging and ~12% less efficient than level-2 charging, we expect the same for our 6.6kW Tesla S model. If efficiency is your first consideration, we get it, Plugless is not the product for you. It is the sort of decision EV drivers make when they buy their cars - when they decide, for example, the convenience of a longer range EV at the expense of efficiency (due to the weight of the battery pack).
brucet999
Active Member
PluglessSteve
Member
Level 2 are around ~99% efficient and Level 1 are around ~94% efficient - and obviously variables, but Apples and Apples (same conditions, same vehicles, same charge cycles all work out to our stated claims above).
mikeash
Active Member
In your professional, grain-of-salty opinion, what's the near-term feasibility of supercharger-like wireless charging?
In my much less informed view, the main problem isn't the waste itself, but the heat it implies. If wireless charging is 90% efficient (for example, actual numbers may vary) then a 6.6kW charger has to reject about 700W of heat, which is substantial but pretty doable. A 120kW supercharging session, on the other hand, would have to reject more like 13kW of heat, which seems like it would rapidly turn the wireless receiver into a glowing puddle in pretty short order. But I would love to hear from someone actually involved in these things whether I'm at all on the right track.
By the way, have you considered that the introduction of the new Summon functionality may substantially increase demand for your product?
LargeHamCollider
Battery cells != scalable
Venders with real knowledge showing up is one of my favorite TMC events, you'll almost certainly beat what I believe will be Tesla's competing (and superior) product to market and I do think there is a certain elegance to wireless charging and consequently an enduring market for it.
That said, one more technical question.
How sensitive is the charger to position? Specifically how much does efficiency fall with 2, 4 and 6 inch displacements from the optimal location?
All good to hear, the ~20lbs (hell, we'll call it 40lbs) adaptor is EXTREMELY negligible - the car already has a curb weight of 4,674 to 4,830 depending on the version (just pretend you have a medium size dog with you... not even a person). As for the ~12% less efficient, that basically means the car will take 9 hours to charge instead of 8 (when connected to a regular 240v outlet), if I understand correctly?
PluglessSteve
Member
Totally doable - but "near term?" - let's establish WEVC charging first THEN get to fast-charging, note - this is my personal opinion. Heat management is critical yes, but I am a marketing guy so I can't speak to it technically, but it can be managed. At higher power, direct DC WEVC charging will be more efficient.
While we're talking future promise for WEVC, know that we've been a part of the ITIC dynamic wireless charging test bed (at Clemson) - (we're Evatran in those announcements: http://www.itic-sc.com/itic-automotive-test-bed-offers-wireless.php) but, again...that sort of infrastructure investment means massive EV adoption (it'll come) and massive WEVC adoption. But when it does...cars charged as they are driving.
Yes, it might have crossed a lot of people's minds, including ours :wink:.
First, our system guides you into the space with visual cues and then Plugless allows ~4 to 6 inches of misalignment in all directions, our owners tell us within about a month they get to a point where they don't really think too much about landing the spot (or think about home charging for that matter). Even at it's worst positioning there is only a 2% loss of efficiency, and our unit gives you a parking score as you practice. Some of our owners place tire guards or other physical barriers to help them nail the landing. Given that, a self-driving car may always land the perfect spot one would think.
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Thanks, our engineers...well, they do really good work. It won't be ~40lbs. We'll release all the specs including charging times soon (you are on the right track) - but note for the VAST majority of daily driving needs 6.6kW of nightly charging will be fine - not for everyone, nor everyday - but for the VAST majority it'll work fine.
That's good to hear, I'm curious as to how the power is passed into the onboard chargers with the Titanium Underbody Shield & Aluminum Deflector Plates (Tesla Adds Titanium Underbody Shield and Aluminum Deflector Plates to Model S | Tesla Motors)... Also, are you saying it will have a nightly cap of 6.6kW or...? For example, if I come close to depleting my charge and I have my car set to start charging at 11pm, will I be able to come out in the morning to a 90% charge (as that's what I have the charge limit set to)?
PluglessSteve
Member
ITIC Automotive Test Bed Offers Wireless Charging as a Service : SC Technology and Aviation Center - and in the U.S. (we're the Evatran in that announcement) - note, I work for Plugless, see comments below.
PluglessSteve
Member
Well now, how (and where) it works is a getting a bit proprietary (but it works). No, the power rate is 6.6kW so yes you'd be at 90% in the am and you wouldn't have really even thought about it, it will work seamlessly as if you were plugged in, meaning your charge time settings on the Tesla will work just as they always have. Our customers get this notion of the convenience of Plugless when they purchase but after a few weeks it dawns on them that they forget refueling their vehicle and that is a good thing. After that they never want to go back to the plug. And I wrote "refueling" because our real mission is get more ICE drivers to make the switch. We've seen it already - people who decided to go EV once they found out they didn't have to think about charging. All of it is - grain of salt time - really, REALLY amazing to be a part of.
Charge on!
PluglessSteve
Member
PluglessSteve
Member
Absolutely - if you haven't yet done so, make sure you contact us so we can give an opportunity to get on the pre-order early, or otherwise get updates from us - here: Dont See Your Vehicle? - Plugless Power
mikeash
Active Member
Cool stuff, thanks for the info and the link. Charging while driving would be amazing. The amount of work needed to make it happen is vast, but it would be great.
I didn't notice you guys are in Richmond. Not too far from me! Anyway, I hope you get a lot of Model S business once you release that product.
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