Ionity, LOL. 67p/kWh from 1st Feb

[CertLive]

Also Source London is not far off with their prices, for a pay as you go customer one hour of charging costs 60p per kilowatt. (60min * 7p) = £4.20 / 7kw = £0.60. This is outrageous, especially you have to pay parking on top of that.

Now we need energy price caps on charging points.... again if Tesla can keep a decent undercut and not make the charging points an area of profit its only going to benefit them greatly. Renewable energy is cheap there are no good reasons for these hikes other than to rip off the consumer.

 

[jimbo_hippo]

Wont the oil companies just use their financial clout to take over the charging networks and energy companies then hike the charging prices up to make petrol cars more appealing again to slow adoption in theory? Win for Tesla here. But 67p/kwh is a total ripoff and will avoid at all costs with 12.5p at home and 24p on a supercharger.

I think it’s a lot harder to mask the cost of when you’re selling electricity rather than petrol/diesel. You’re effectively selling exactly the same thing you can get elsewhere at a known price. The only thing that can add value is speed and convenience and even that has a limit.

I think the outcome will be whether mass acceptance of EVs also comes with an expectation that fuel should be about the same price without thinking about it. I don’t see a lot of thinking going on out there in so many elements of our daily life so I don’t have high hopes for the price of lecky either.

 

[CertLive]

Ionity article quote “ To put things into perspective, it’s a bit like this:

Presently, if you happen to own a 62 kWh Nissan Leaf e+ and could charge it from Ionity (see comment section below), you would pay 8 EUR per charging session. As of January 31, you’d have to pay 0.79 EUR / kWh, which translates into roughly 50 EUR. And those kWh would all be used up 239 miles (385 km) later, as per official numbers.

For 50 EUR, you could buy roughly 35 liters of gasoline in Germany and fuel your Golf VII 1.4 TSI with a manual gearbox and 125 hp. That should last you for over 370 miles (600 km), according to official consumption figures. “

Now is that not sabotage by bmw, vw and ford? Making it more expensive than fuel!?

 

[ProfessorK]

TBH, I'd pay a yearly "fair use" subscription for the Super Charger network. Something like £20 a month or £200 for a year, or even scale it depending on usage. Seeing as the average M3 (I'm SR+) charge session is around, what... £7.50 a pop? Seems reasonable.

 

[Jason71]

Its funny how the people pushing 67p/kwh fast charging are also the ones selling EV's with a max 200 mile range and saying that most people don't need more. I think they are hurting their own argument. (M3 LR, 3000 miles so far zero DC charging)

 

[rotor2k]

I think it’s a lot harder to mask the cost of when you’re selling electricity rather than petrol/diesel. You’re effectively selling exactly the same thing you can get elsewhere at a known price. The only thing that can add value is speed and convenience and even that has a limit.

Bottled water is a pretty good example of something that is already free that can be sold for an exorbitant markup -- successfully, for decades. Convenience is a powerful incentive!

 

[pdk42]

The capital cost of rapid DC chargers is huge, so I can understand the need to get back some of that as quickly as possible - but OTOH, pricing it at roughly 10x what you'd pay at home is taking it way too far. I'm convinced this is really just a strategy to favour the sponsoring companies and stick two fingers up to the rest - especially Tesla.

The take home message for me is that whilst I originally thought we'd rapidly get to a comprehensive, open, public rapid charge network, I can now see that tactics like this mean we'll be into punitive and protective strategies for a lot longer. Sad...

Let's just hope that Tesla continue to invest in its own Supercharger network, or that at some point government steps in to regulate.

 

[CertLive]

Its funny how the people pushing 67p/kwh fast charging are also the ones selling EV's with a max 200 mile range and saying that most people don't need more. I think they are hurting their own argument. (M3 LR, 3000 miles so far zero DC charging)

You have to admire this "Tesla is committed to ensuring that Supercharger will never be a profit centre." and then you have to admire the balls the VW group have to price their own EV,s out of the market for day to day road network users in order to direct people back to cheaper petrol with greater range.... More Tesla sales. This price war was always coming and its going to be some very interesting times for which I hope the consumer wins. Am I wrong in saying this type of news will push people away from those brands when they work the numbers?

 

[Cogarch]

I'd better withdraw my comment about Ionity that I made in the VW ID.3 thread a short time ago. Looks like Ionity is going to just price themselves out of the market, before they've really got off the ground.

Nope, they're just deliberately discouraging the growing numbers of Tesla drivers. ID.3s and other German manufacturers will have special deals,

Spare a thought for them - this is the only thing they can do to compensate for their competitive disadvantage.

 

[UrbanSplash]

If ionity are using public subsidies it’s worth raising competition etc

 

[CertLive]

Nope, they're just deliberately discouraging the growing numbers of Tesla drivers. ID.3s and other German manufacturers will have special deals,

Spare a thought for them - this is the only thing they can do to compensate for their competitive disadvantage.

So if this latest decision was at all done by the board input for e.g. VW group then they just made a Tesla and even better value proposition for the future without much of a question. How fast the most influential car company can fall. Hope they bought T shares!

 

[KennethS]

Let's just hope that Tesla continue to invest in its own Supercharger network, or that at some point government steps in to regulate.

I am a sceptic when it comes to government intervention. My bigger fear is that the government imposes a levy on the electric charges to replicate fuel duty and excise tax...

 

[pdk42]

I am a sceptic when it comes to government intervention. My bigger fear is that the government imposes a levy on the electric charges to replicate fuel duty and excise tax...

Yes - that is a realistic fear; especially when fuel duty revenue starts to dry up.

 

[jimbo_hippo]

Bottled water is a pretty good example of something that is already free that can be sold for an exorbitant markup -- successfully, for decades. Convenience is a powerful incentive!

I think this highlights how dumb we are as a nation/world population if anything. I used to chastise people for such rash and broad statements what I just typed and I used to be much more willing to sit down with people and have a rational conversation, share what I know and listen with a view to learning something and sharing a sensible debate. But Climate Change, Brexit, two elections and (recently) owning 2 EVs has highlighted to me that convenience and ploughing on is far easier than questioning anything for many, so you have a valid point there. Everyone is so busy being busy that they can't actually work out what the water out of their tap costs or whether or not it's the same as the stuff in their single use bottles. The same probably applies to EV charging too.

Some days I want people to follow me/us down the enlightened road to Tesla ownership then some days, I read stuff like the Ionity press release and I become an insular protective Tesla owner feeling smug and not caring as people wrestle for a motorway charger because they blew £70K on an iPace without doing some research. I feel bad about that ........ sometimes.

 

[Jason71]

Yes - that is a realistic fear; especially when fuel duty revenue starts to dry up.

They could but it would not make much sense. It works for petrol but people with a petrol car can't just go and fuel it up at home. It would be very hard to tax home charging since you can do it from any wall socket and trying to just tax public chargers and not home charging penalises people without drives ( who are typically the less well off) and drives the adoption of unnecessarily long range EV's which itself is not good for the environment. The only way to tax the electricity is if the cars themselves have to record and report it which is a possibility. Though it seems to me a system of road pricing is more likely i.e. you pay for the number of miles you cover either via a GPS linked black box or just trusting the cars reported mileage.

 

[CertLive]

as people wrestle for a motorway charger because they blew £70K on an iPace without doing some research. I feel bad about that ........ sometimes.

I am a sceptic when it comes to government intervention. My bigger fear is that the government imposes a levy on the electric charges to replicate fuel duty and excise tax...

You see that is the problem it kicks everyone in the arse in the end. Things get taken away gradually and it is going to be just like bottled water a human right but you pay heavy for it and it gets harder to reach. As for government levies yes I do not think there is anyone who is not expecting this to move in eventually. Feels like an ev owner might be required to charge on a separate meter to pay the tax. Enjoy the good times of early adoption! I just deleted the ionity app hell who needs anything else the supercharging network is almost everywhere.

 

[davidmc]

With the £8 a month (£7 a month if you're an AA member like me), it's pretty cheap to charge an M3. Way cheaper than Shell, Tesla Superchargers, Source London, and now Ionity. I use a completely free 7kw charger near my flat, so only ever pay £7 per month for the subscription and that's it.

You paying £7 for your membership to use a free charger? - Why not cancel the membership, keep the card (I have and still use it) and use the free charger. Saved you £7 You can buy me a pint when i see you next!

 

[Yev000]

Yes - that is a realistic fear; especially when fuel duty revenue starts to dry up.

When that happens solar on the roof would be mandatory.

Hell, buying a diesel generator would work too...

 

[Yev000]

i.e. you pay for the number of miles you cover either via a GPS linked black box or just trusting the cars reported mileage.

At that point emigration starts to look appealing.

I get that infrastructure has a cost, but it can't just be down to the road users. Everyone indirectly uses roads by having something delivered, or buying goods delivered by lorries.

Don't tell me my little 1.5 Tonne car on the road for 2 hours a day is wearing the road to the tune of £6 (the fuel duty i used to spend by buring ~£10 worth of diesel).... That's like having CC zone for the entire UK, paid for by every driver, even electric.

That's what ~£1500 commuting TAX per year? I can't imagine going back to that after going electric.

And you pay that regardless if you have a well paid job or not.

I paid my VAT and Luxury TAX on the car, thank you, now leave me alone!

 

[Jason71]

At that point emigration starts to look appealing.

I get that infrastructure has a cost, but it can't just be down to the road users. Everyone indirectly uses roads by having something delivered, or buying goods delivered by lorries.

Don't tell me my little 1.5 Tonne car on the road for 2 hours a day is wearing the road to the tune of £6 (the fuel duty i used to spend by buring ~£10 worth of diesel).... That's like having CC zone for the entire UK, paid for by every driver, even electric.

That's what ~£1500 commuting TAX per year? I can't imagine going back to that after going electric.

And you pay that regardless if you have a well paid job or not.

I paid my VAT and Luxury TAX on the car, thank you, now leave me alone!

I am sure you are at least partly joking but for the record pretty sure most of the places worth emigrating too also have taxes.
Luxury car tax is a total scam don't get me started on that but that aside ( some EV's are below the threshold)
I am sure you realise that your one off VAT payment not really the answer to a maintaining the road network and sooner or later EV's are going to have to pick up a share of that
Whether you think the level is right some type of tax that relates to the amount you use the roads is the fairest way and the current fuel duty mostly ticks that box and something similar based on fuel use or miles driven will come our way sooner or later.

BTW did you see that the AA is campaigning for VAT on EV's to be dropped! can't see it happening and good thing too! (unless its retrospective then I am all in )