hingisfan
hingisfan_Mark_V
Totally agree.... If you're shelling out 10k for mostly future features..... You're probably gonna upgrade cars in the next 5 years, making FSD a bad buy.... Maybe if on sale, but full pop? No way
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Is it worth getting FSD in Canada?
- Thread starter Mikeydeek
- Start date
I've been using AP regularly for a year, and without a shadow of a doubt it has improved regularly in capability and quality. Given what has been demonstrated and the hardware improvements shown, not getting FSD at this point seems unwise.
Autopilot is child's play compared to FSD, both in terms of complexity to implement and getting government approval.
In the past couple of days I've been using Autopilot a fair bit. There have been a few phantom braking events, and it's getting speed limits wrong or doesn't know the speed limit at all. If the car decides you're in a 30 zone, autopilot has a hard limit of 40 which is dangerous if the true limit is 50 and traffic is doing closer to 60. I'd say we're 2-3 years out from true hands-off self driving, and probably at least 5 years from the government approving it. Until then you'll need to pay full attention and the value of FSD over Autopilot will be negligible.
I may even be being generous. Look at how bad the red light and stop sign detection is, and how slow advanced summon is. For FSD, red lights and stop signs need to be detected 100% of the time, not 99% or even 99.9% of the time. The car also needs to learn how to merge. Those features are much more difficult that following the lines and matching the speed of the car ahead of you, and the hard stuff takes much longer to implement than the easier stuff.
Red light and stop sign detection is "bad" with current autopilot because it is not implemented.
In the US it's supposed to give you a warning you are about to run a light on newish updates. Google or search YouTube. You'll see it works, sometimes but not with any consistency.Red light and stop sign detection is "bad" with current autopilot because it is not implemented.
Blu-Ion
Member
FSD is really easy for 99% of driving, its the 1% that will be the problem.
In order for it to work, it must be 99.9999% reliable, which is a long way away.
It come down to the car knowing how to deal with "judgement" that is really difficult, say for example you are in a construction zone, and they have a small one-lane detour on dirt on side of road with a signal person there, how will FSD handle that?
Also, how will FSD handle a 4-way stop, we as driver know to look and gesture/nod to each other at 4 way stops to signal who goes ahead. The FSD car will probably come to full 3-second stops as well, really annoying everybody snce we all know that you shouldn't really do full stops for the sake of traffic flow (I expect to get flamed for this but you know its true)
Maybeonce all cars are FSD we can design roads accordingly, but that's at least 20 years away.
No way robo-taxis are coming any time soon! Except perhaps in very controlled environments
In order for it to work, it must be 99.9999% reliable, which is a long way away.
It come down to the car knowing how to deal with "judgement" that is really difficult, say for example you are in a construction zone, and they have a small one-lane detour on dirt on side of road with a signal person there, how will FSD handle that?
Also, how will FSD handle a 4-way stop, we as driver know to look and gesture/nod to each other at 4 way stops to signal who goes ahead. The FSD car will probably come to full 3-second stops as well, really annoying everybody snce we all know that you shouldn't really do full stops for the sake of traffic flow (I expect to get flamed for this but you know its true)
Maybeonce all cars are FSD we can design roads accordingly, but that's at least 20 years away.
No way robo-taxis are coming any time soon! Except perhaps in very controlled environments
Agree, I think the key is specoal roads for robocar. Human car and robo car won't mix well...
5_+JqckQttqck
Active Member
I second that @antoinearnau, specific road ways for AVs would be the logical transition as we move away from the act of driving. People cannot be trusted to operate a car and not be distracted by their zombie phone screen or drive like as ass.
I had a Silver Corolla merge (far left to center) into the same lane I was auto lane (far right to center) changing into without even a signal or head/shoulder look. I saw him coming in from my peripheral and manually took over as I wasn't sure if the car's camera would detect him. Going to look for the saved footage and review.
I had a Silver Corolla merge (far left to center) into the same lane I was auto lane (far right to center) changing into without even a signal or head/shoulder look. I saw him coming in from my peripheral and manually took over as I wasn't sure if the car's camera would detect him. Going to look for the saved footage and review.
5_+JqckQttqck
Active Member
I second that @antoinearnau, specific road ways for AVs would be the logical transition as we move away from the act of driving. People cannot be trusted to operate a car and not be distracted by their zombie phone screen or drive like as ass.
I had a Silver Corolla merge (far left to center) into the same lane I was auto lane (far right to center) changing into without even a signal or head/shoulder look. I saw him coming in from my peripheral and manually took over as I wasn't sure if the car's camera would detect him. Going to look for the saved footage and review.
I had a Silver Corolla merge (far left to center) into the same lane I was auto lane (far right to center) changing into without even a signal or head/shoulder look. I saw him coming in from my peripheral and manually took over as I wasn't sure if the car's camera would detect him. Going to look for the saved footage and review.
Is there a map, or a list, or a criteria description somewhere for what highways in Canada are useable for FSD?
$7900 is a chunk of money for faith that FSD will be useable in Canada in the next 10-15 years (my usual vehicle ownership timeframe).
I live on Vancouver Island and drive about 4,000 km/month. If I can use FSD on Hwy 1 and much of Hwy 19 I might be able to justify it.
If FSD in BC is limited to the mainland it would be more difficult to justify it.
$7900 is a chunk of money for faith that FSD will be useable in Canada in the next 10-15 years (my usual vehicle ownership timeframe).
I live on Vancouver Island and drive about 4,000 km/month. If I can use FSD on Hwy 1 and much of Hwy 19 I might be able to justify it.
If FSD in BC is limited to the mainland it would be more difficult to justify it.
So the FSD is still in alpha with Tesla. The autopilot features that are available now will work on many roads, but primarily full highways.
Tesla is shooting for a general purpose solution.
My experience is that with each update, behaviour improves. So the truth is that the purchase price is funding the software development.
Tesla is shooting for a general purpose solution.
My experience is that with each update, behaviour improves. So the truth is that the purchase price is funding the software development.
**edit.. I’m referring to NOA..** (which around van island and even Vancouver seems kinda useless with our lack of interchanges.)
Go to the nearest supercharger and ask people charging there.. someone local will know. I couldn’t find what you’re looking for either but was able to borrow a model 3 for test drive and it worked where I drove HWY 1 Vancouver to horseshoe bay and back..
My first Tesla had AP1, my current one has AP2. It's only been in the past 6-9 months that I think one could say AP2 has surpassed AP1 and it's progressively getting better. In terms of FSD becoming production-ready, it's an unknown. I purchased FSD when I got my current Model S in 2017, so it's really not been a value-added position (now 2 years "invested"). There have been several timelines created to make it production-ready, and it tends to lag greatly with those time frames. If you think that the current AutoPilot with NOA is something you can use, then go ahead and purchase, but I would put a caveat that you're probably realistically looking at 1-2 years off before it becomes anything meaningful as FSD. Let's see if Tesla will live up to the first coast-to-coast drive that was supposed to happen late 2017 (along with a couple of revised dates) and now supposed to happen later this year (I think, maybe, possibly, depending upon the which way the wind blows, and whether the cow jumps over the moon).
All that said, I think AutoPilot is making strides forward, but it still hasn't reached above a transient level 2+/borderline 3 of functionality. Watch to see how the newest cars are doing with the AP3 computers installed and see how it manages it.
The choice becomes a matter of whether you look at this as paying for a finished product or are you able to see it as an "investment" into developing the technology. Basically, anyone who has paid for it, has invested into developing the technology (even though it's not been stated so by Tesla).
All that said, I think AutoPilot is making strides forward, but it still hasn't reached above a transient level 2+/borderline 3 of functionality. Watch to see how the newest cars are doing with the AP3 computers installed and see how it manages it.
The choice becomes a matter of whether you look at this as paying for a finished product or are you able to see it as an "investment" into developing the technology. Basically, anyone who has paid for it, has invested into developing the technology (even though it's not been stated so by Tesla).
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@BEPA400 Thank you for clarifying my improper use of “FSD” when I meant “NOA”. I’m still working on the acronyms.
Previously I was thinking the term was “Destination On Autopilot”, but I realized that Tesla was unlikely to have a feature referred to as “DOA”.
Previously I was thinking the term was “Destination On Autopilot”, but I realized that Tesla was unlikely to have a feature referred to as “DOA”.
If you're talking about NOA vs autopilot, in the absence of interchanges, I guess the main benefit would be that it automatically passes slower vehicles.
I added FSD for $6600. Debating whether it's worthwhile to keep it or cancel it.
pcons
M3 AWD+
IMO at this point, it isn't worth 6600 since the features it adds aren't 'that' necessary. You are taking a gamble that they might have another sale on it down the road, which personally I would take that gamble.
But as with most things in life, I find it best to go with your gut. If you can afford the 6600 just get it and don't stress if prices go up/down. If you are stretching to get the 3 as it is, best to leave it off for now and invest the 6600 for a year or two.
The big question is how the Canadian rollout will differ from the US one. Even if features are release this year in the US, they still could take a while to come here. We still don't have stop sign or stop light detection, which doesn't sound like it works perfectly now anyway.
I tried to cancel it when they had the sale and at this point Tesla will not allow you to cancel. They simply state that it is part of the config of the car, it can only be added but can not be removed. It's complete nonsense but right now the only way to get your money would be to try and sue them. That's at least what they told me every time I contacted them.
I got it and I do not regret it. If you can afford it without breaking the bank, then go for it. It entitles you to things like a free HW3 upgrade. Also, I don't know if you get the full suite of safety features without it - i.e. collision avoidance, lane departures warnings, etc. I could be wrong on that though, but something to investigate. The collision warnings have saved my butt twice already in the past 6 months. But I'll be honest, I love tech, so I may be biased. To me it just added value to what was an already awesome car. It just feels like the next level in the evolution of the automobile. I use it daily - with both hands on the wheel and at attention mind you - It is in beta after all.
In the end, its your decision to make and to live with. Do what makes you happy.
In the end, its your decision to make and to live with. Do what makes you happy.
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