Is Range Anxiety Fake News? Let's Drive 1012 Miles to New Orleans!

[Saghost]

You guys seem to be coming at this from a different angle than from what I was saying, and I am not into internet arguments (although we have not gotten there yet in this thread for sure).

What I was saying is, people get range anxiety because they know (or think they know) they need to plan out a trip around availability of charging. I am not saying that it cant be done, or that charging is hard, or even that there is any difficulty in getting anywhere someone wants to go.

I am saying the PERCEPTION is there that there is, and the PERCEPTION causes them anxiety about the range they can go on their long trip (range anxiety). Most of you are saying "I didnt have a problem" which is fine. Peoples perceptions do not have to equal reality. You have to change your perception (or change peoples perception) that "traveling in an EV is difficult".

I dont think it is personally, but I would still think about it, and plan for it. For the general person, until they experience it themselves, the perception that "traveling in an EV requires careful planning" IS their reality... thus there is range anxiety.

Saying that people dont have range anxiety is false. Now, saying that they SHOULDNT have range anxiety, thats another discussion and not the one I was having. We can say all we want that "this is easy, people shouldnt be scared", but until talking about range is a non issue, new EV drivers or non EV drivers will get anxiety over it. People never discuss the range on an ICE car, because no one cares if it goes 300 miles on a tank or 500 miles on a tank... because they are not worried about where that next tank comes from.

My position is, until people get to the point where the range "doesnt matter" because there are enough charging stations, and charging is just about as fast as filling up a gas tank, there will be many who get anxiety, whether others believe its "warranted" or not.

You seem to be working from a different definition of range anxiety than the one I'm familiar with.

I always believed range anxiety was defined as "being anxious over the possibility of not reaching my destination due to a lack of battery energy."

You seem to be arguing for an anxiety about taking long trips because people know they'll have to plan the long trip. That's probably valid in some cases, but it's something different - road trip anxiety, maybe.

Classic range anxiety is quite neatly addressed by Tesla's live battery percentage at destination in the navigation. You might have to take action if you push it to the limits and the flop goes against you, but there's little uncertainty or cause for anxiety.

 

[Joe F]

Wife only once looked at the graph and said "That's going to be close. Are we going to make it?" Had to remind her to look at the speed. We're doing 80 MPH, said, watch this: Backed off to 70 MPH and she went back to watching the world go by. Then I kicked it back up to 80.

No headwinds, no weather, no worries, arrived with a whopping 5% left. Imagine only doing 55 MPH...

However I understand the concern some might have with excessive planning. I also believe the same person plans every stop and route even if in an ICE.

 

[Rocky_H]

What I was saying is, people get range anxiety because they know (or think they know) they need to plan out a trip around availability of charging. I am not saying that it cant be done, or that charging is hard, or even that there is any difficulty in getting anywhere someone wants to go.

I am saying the PERCEPTION is there that there is, and the PERCEPTION causes them anxiety about the range they can go on their long trip (range anxiety). Most of you are saying "I didnt have a problem" which is fine. Peoples perceptions do not have to equal reality. You have to change your perception (or change peoples perception) that "traveling in an EV is difficult".

I dont think it is personally, but I would still think about it, and plan for it. For the general person, until they experience it themselves, the perception that "traveling in an EV requires careful planning" IS their reality... thus there is range anxiety.

You seem to be working from a different definition of range anxiety than the one I'm familiar with.

I always believed range anxiety was defined as "being anxious over the possibility of not reaching my destination due to a lack of battery energy."

Yeah, concur with this. The standard common definition of range anxiety is about running out and being stranded, not just having to plan a trip.

Saying that people dont have range anxiety is false. Now, saying that they SHOULDNT have range anxiety, thats another discussion and not the one I was having. We can say all we want that "this is easy, people shouldnt be scared", but until talking about range is a non issue, new EV drivers or non EV drivers will get anxiety over it.

But about this, that's why I think we're at a point where my balanced recommendation is a pretty good one. You don't need to make people afraid, but also not give them rose colored glasses. If people are traveling just on normal interstate routes that have good Supercharger coverage, it's not even something to have to think or worry or plan about. But if it's deviating onto long stretches of side highways and small towns, then yes, they will need to be careful and plan that out in some way.

 

[Rottenapplr]

I saw on the news that those who drive EVs have "range anxiety" and it is impossible to drive an EV for long road trips due to their short range and long charge times. Is this fake news? How do you use a Supercharger? How much does it cost to use a Supercharger? How long does it take to recharge my Tesla Model 3 using a Supercharger? Let's have some fun and drive from Dallas to New Orleans to find out!

Have you taken a road trip in your Model 3? Is range anxiety real?

Not in my model 3! Not sure what other ev models expletive is road tripping. I’d love to hear previous owners of other ev experience road tripping.

 

[Electroman]

At our age we do stop for meals and the car is finished before we are

At any age, people need to stop for meals and bio break

Watching a recent video about a 1500 mile road trip in another long range EV

'another' long rage EV? Hmm is there one?

 

[Saghost]

At any age, people need to stop for meals and bio break



'another' long rage EV? Hmm is there one?

Depends on your definition of long, I suppose. Tesla still holds the high ground, and nothing else is pushing the three hundred mile mark.

But this year, there are finally several 250+ competitors that qualify as long range IMHO.

Here's the video I was watching:

 

[jjrandorin]

I AM defining range anxiety as "worry of not being able to make it because your battery runs out"... and it seems that the people in this thread think that people somehow no longer have that fear. Maybe people in this thread dont, (and maybe the general populace SHOULDNT) but its my position they still do, and will for quite some time... regardless of the facts.

 

[Saghost]

I AM defining range anxiety as "worry of not being able to make it because your battery runs out"... and it seems that the people in this thread think that people somehow no longer have that fear. Maybe people in this thread dont, (and maybe the general populace SHOULDNT) but its my position they still do, and will for quite some time... regardless of the facts.

If the car tells you "you'll definitely make it" or "you wouldn't make it, so charge here on the way" and is right every time, how do you manage to keep worrying?

 

[jjrandorin]

If the car tells you "you'll definitely make it" or "you wouldn't make it, so charge here on the way" and is right every time, how do you manage to keep worrying?

"I" am not worrying. I said "people" as in Average people who either are new to EVs or are thinking about what owning an EV would be like. The original question is "is range anxiety fake news?" and its my position that no, its a real thing that "people" have, until they have personal experience that shows them something different.

The angle in this thread seems to act like range anxiety doesnt exist (its fake news). When, as I mention, its my belief that people still do have it. "I" dont. my round trip to work and back in my car is 75 miles. There is zero chance I will ever get stuck going to work and back. I know if I want to plan a trip to (lets say) Vegas, I should take a look at where I would be stopping on the way. In an ICE car I wouldnt be stopping... it would be a 4-5 hour trip and I would drive straight through, and fill up when I got there. Where I filled up with gas would be zero consideration.

If I were to take my tesla, I would need to plan to stop somewhere (not a big deal but would still need to plan where that is). That would not cause me anxiety, but would make me make some additional planning. The same trip, BEFORE I got my tesla would have given me anxiety of thought of how is it going to work?

I guess the way many of you are looking at it, range anxiety can only exist in current EV owners, not potential EV owners as a barrier to entry?

 

[Saghost]

"I" am not worrying. I said "people" as in Average people who either are new to EVs or are thinking about what owning an EV would be like. The original question is "is range anxiety fake news?" and its my position that no, its a real thing that "people" have, until they have personal experience that shows them something different.

The angle in this thread seems to act like range anxiety doesnt exist (its fake news). When, as I mention, its my belief that people still do have it. "I" dont. my round trip to work and back in my car is 75 miles. There is zero chance I will ever get stuck going to work and back. I know if I want to plan a trip to (lets say) Vegas, I should take a look at where I would be stopping on the way. In an ICE car I wouldnt be stopping... it would be a 4-5 hour trip and I would drive straight through, and fill up when I got there. Where I filled up with gas would be zero consideration.

If I were to take my tesla, I would need to plan to stop somewhere (not a big deal but would still need to plan where that is). That would not cause me anxiety, but would make me make some additional planning. The same trip, BEFORE I got my tesla would have given me anxiety of thought of how is it going to work?

I guess the way many of you are looking at it, range anxiety can only exist in current EV owners, not potential EV owners as a barrier to entry?

I think my take on it is that there's no reason for a Tesla owner to have range anxiety, and no one who had the system explained to them and got to try it a couple times would feel range anxiety.

As you say, there are likely people who don't have EVs who believe that if they bought the car they would suffer from range anxiety, but that's because they don't understand the real state of affairs. So Range Anxiety may not be fake news exactly, but it is largely FUD.

 

[Rocky_H]

I AM defining range anxiety as "worry of not being able to make it because your battery runs out"... and it seems that the people in this thread think that people somehow no longer have that fear. Maybe people in this thread dont, (and maybe the general populace SHOULDNT) but its my position they still do, and will for quite some time... regardless of the facts.

I already said that there are places where this is a legitimate worry. Did you not read those responses? I've had a few nail biters in places where I was being adventurous and going off the beaten path. But it is not usually an issue for most places, and it's certainly not the constant daily problem that uninformed people think it would be.

"I" am not worrying. I said "people" as in Average people who either are new to EVs or are thinking about what owning an EV would be like. The original question is "is range anxiety fake news?" and its my position that no, its a real thing that "people" have, until they have personal experience that shows them something different.

The take is this: there are legitimate rational fears, and there are illegitimate irrational fears that are nonsense. There are lots of weird phobias that people have that are based on nothing. My father-in-law was paranoid about Facebook because he heard that naked pictures of people get leaked online, and he was worried that might happen to him. You've never posted any naked pictures on the internet, so that's not a thing that can happen.

I've also heard these other worries about EVs:
1) The batteries go dead in 3 years and cost more than the car to replace.
2) They are totally weak and have no power
3) They lose all their energy in the cold and won't even work.
4) They lose half their range from air conditioning.
5) If you leave them plugged in after they are finished charging, they will overcharge and explode.
6) They will interfere with your pacemaker and kill you.
7) The radiation will give you brain tumors.

Have you heard how this is brought up? People ask, "What if I FIND MYSELF out of battery?!?!" It's this weird idea that they are apparently going to become conscious (wake up?) with no idea how they got there or where they have been or what they have been doing for the past day and see that they are in an electric car that has almost no energy left, and they are in a panic. Teleporting doesn't exist, so people can't just "find themselves" somewhere with no energy. Sure, anyone could just choose to be a complete moron and keep driving past Supercharger after Supercharger without using them and eventually run out of energy, but that would just be someone being stupid, not a legitimate fear about the vehicle. Many thousands of people run out of gasoline every year too, and that's supposed to never happen, right?

 

[Nvbob]

Range anxiety? Nope. In April, we did 6300 miles (Carson City, Nv to Vero Beach, Fla and back) using the Nav to find Superchargers and PlugShare to find destination chargers / J1772s. We had no issues whatsoever. Along the route, we stayed at hotels that offered free charging (along with free breakfasts). We took our time and enjoyed the drive.

 

[hmgolds]

I think range anxiety is very real - until you understand your car, it's nav capabilities, and other tools (such as plugshare). Even then, there are still things (some predictable, some not) that can arise. For example, hilly terrain can screw up your range estimate (but is predictable). A 5 mile backup due to a semi truck on fire (been there, luckily saw it driving the other direction) can do that too.

 

[IraB]

For better or worse, the consequences of actually running out of juice vs. gas are substantially more inconvenient. With gas, worst case, you get a gas can and a ride to the nearest gas station and back to your car, then drive to the gas station and you are on your way.

With electrons, you get a flatbed to drag your car onto the truck, drive the truck to someplace with a charger and wait 15 to 45 minutes (if you are lucky enough to be at a reasonably high speed charger) before you can be on your way.

While it is true that at least with a Tesla, it is reasonably easy to avoid the above scenario simply by using the built-in nav, (a) the general public is not typically aware of this level of detail; and (b) the severe inconvenience is daunting even if the odds of it happening are extremely low.

On the other hand, one thing that Tesla (and other drivers) are perhaps under estimating is the level of inconvenience of a flat tire. Many modern cars including Teslas have no spare tire and at best have a "fix-a-flat" style patch / inflation kit. In some cases, like the Model 3 Performance, the cars don't even include this and cannot use such products. Even with fix-a-flat, there are many flat tires that cannot be fixed (for example blow-outs and side wall punctures). With no spare, the only remedy is waiting for a tow or a replacement wheel / tire, either of which can mean long waiting times.

I can say from personal experience with a Porsche, I had a flat on a Sunday afternoon that could not be patched. Porsche sent out a tow truck after about a 2 hour wait. The truck towed my car to the dealer where it sat until Monday afternoon when the tire was finally replaced (and I was damn lucky the dealer had the tire in stock or it would have been at least 2 more days to get things fixed). Fortunately, the flat occurred in my garage at my home and I had a spare car to drive while the Porsche was indisposed. However, the thought of something like this happening on a road trip is very sobering.

Based on this, I have to say I have a lot more "flat anxiety" than range anxiety. At least with range, I have the ability to plan. With flats, I have no control and severe inconvenience.

 

[jjrandorin]

I already said that there are places where this is a legitimate worry. Did you not read those responses? I've had a few nail biters in places where I was being adventurous and going off the beaten path. But it is not usually an issue for most places, and it's certainly not the constant daily problem that uninformed people think it would be.


The take is this: there are legitimate rational fears, and there are illegitimate irrational fears that are nonsense. There are lots of weird phobias that people have that are based on nothing. My father-in-law was paranoid about Facebook because he heard that naked pictures of people get leaked online, and he was worried that might happen to him. You've never posted any naked pictures on the internet, so that's not a thing that can happen.

I've also heard these other worries about EVs:
1) The batteries go dead in 3 years and cost more than the car to replace.
2) They are totally weak and have no power
3) They lose all their energy in the cold and won't even work.
4) They lose half their range from air conditioning.
5) If you leave them plugged in after they are finished charging, they will overcharge and explode.
6) They will interfere with your pacemaker and kill you.
7) The radiation will give you brain tumors.

Have you heard how this is brought up? People ask, "What if I FIND MYSELF out of battery?!?!" It's this weird idea that they are apparently going to become conscious (wake up?) with no idea how they got there or where they have been or what they have been doing for the past day and see that they are in an electric car that has almost no energy left, and they are in a panic. Teleporting doesn't exist, so people can't just "find themselves" somewhere with no energy. Sure, anyone could just choose to be a complete moron and keep driving past Supercharger after Supercharger without using them and eventually run out of energy, but that would just be someone being stupid, not a legitimate fear about the vehicle. Many thousands of people run out of gasoline every year too, and that's supposed to never happen, right?

So then we are saying somewhat the same thing. Just because someone has a fear thats irrational doesnt mean they dont have it. It just means they SHOULDNT have it... but they do.

The original question in this thread was not "Should people have range anxiety?" It was "is range anxiety fake news? " (note, poster with sensationalist title + youtube video basically saying "help monetize my video by clicking here"). I took the title as it was stated which was "is range anxiety fake news?"

Vs "Is range anxiety a currently irrational fear?" which is the way it appears that many of you read the question. I would agree that its mostly an irrational fear at this point. What I am not agreeing to is that it doesnt exist, or is gone.

I usually am fairly decent at explaining my position in things but dont seem to be doing a very good job here at explaining what I am saying, so I apologize for that.

 

[Rocky_H]

So then we are saying somewhat the same thing. Just because someone has a fear thats irrational doesnt mean they dont have it. It just means they SHOULDNT have it... but they do

Pretty much on the same page then. Sure, some people certainly do sometimes have meaningless fears about things that aren't real. But then that's not even a question at all. The only thing we can even talk about is whether a fear has any legitimacy. I don't entirely dismiss it, but it's mostly overblown for most use in the continental U.S. and western Europe.

 

[cct3]

7200 mile 4 week trip from Wake Forest, NC to DC to Chicago to South Dakota to Devils Tower to Yellowstone to Denver to Rocky Mountain National Park to Denver again to Huntington WV and back to home. No range anxiety, no route deviation save for a few miles off the main route to Supercharger and back. We brought our charging cables and did purchase a 30 amp adapter to charge in campgrounds where we did spend the night in a campground with power that only had 30 amp. We slept in the back of the car with a sleeping bag and comforter with climate control on when needed and I can honestly say I had more of an issue with pee anxiety than I did about running out of charge. Wife made some curtains for privacy utilizing suction cups. Only reason we charged in campgrounds was to save a few bucks on Supercharger cost and use our hot plate. Only reason we came home as soon as we did instead of going to Grand Canyon was we didnt want to deal with crowds. We will be heading there after school is back in session. A lot of superchargers are in motel lots so pee before you go to charge. I am sure there are areas where maybe the Superchargers are not as accessible, but we didnt find them. Once you set your destination, just realize there are more Superchargers on your route than what Tesla Navigation recommends for your trip. If you tap on lower right of your screen to see all Superchargers, you will see what I mean.

 

[Wennfred]

When I first got the Model 3, I went on a 123 mile trip driving at under 250 wh/mi and it was dead on, so no Range Anxiety after that. Drove it another time to Las Vegas with no issues.

 

[bwilson4web]

Source:

The charge curve as a function of time showing kW rate and battery indicated miles:

Combining travel at 65 mph with the charging profile, we can identify the fastest travel speed as a function of battery charge:

A slightly more complex graph, this shows the cost along with the indicated battery miles:

I typically drive by "reserve miles," the difference between the battery indicated miles and the navigation miles to the next charger. So if a route has enough SuperChargers, I hop from charger-to-charger to achieve the fastest block-to-block speed. It is slower to carry excess charge past a SuperCharger because the longer time spent in battery taper impacts the block-to-block time.

Bob Wilson