Is Supercharging like getting free lunch? Vs gas stations?

[ℬête Noire]

The problem is a pile of the places I have Supercharged at are not NEAR a restroom or have restrooms that close overnight and have no alternative. I believe public urination is still illegal.

After hours arrivals (usually 9PM) at SC like that you can't really count on for services. If you've got a passenger, have them scout with their phone if you're going for speed and potentially plan a double-SC hop around locations like large malls and many restaurants. Some are okay, because they have a brisk walk to an appropriate location, but usually the car will be past required charge by the time you're back. Walmart (24/7 ones), hotels/motels, truck stops, and such are ones you'll want to count on. Push comes to shove you can hit a 24/7 gas station/truck stop that isn't a SC, although that'll cost you a bit of time.

Since their money is in the convenience side, they are hardly going to be unhappy to see you come through the door.

I've found double hops okay alternative, too. Use the 1 hour break for a very leisurely meal or a power nap. So far I'm finding taking a small mid-hop stop, anyway, as it helps keep you fresh. Though others that have done this more could speak up on that, and it'll be somewhat personal.

One thing, and this is big for any vehicle driving, is hydration planning. Just enough roughly 50:50 diluted Gatorade sipped occasionally to keep from being thirsty is optimal for minimizing bathroom breaks in a healthy way. Keeps your body functioning properly. Learn to listen to your body. Straight water, juice, pop, etc. is a recipe for inconvenient bio-break. Coffee, at anytime, is a trap. Red Bull typically is, too. Straight Gatorade is usually too much electrolytes, and you can push your blood pressure up.

 

[chronopc]

I don’t use SC. I charge at work at $0.21 a kw. But I had planned a road trip next week. Now with my calculations. I’ll be getting equalivant to a 30mpg car, it doesn’t make sense to take a Tesla on road trips anymore. A electric car shouldn’t be worse than a Prius.

Say 550 miles.

Prius 55mpg that’s 10 gallons. X $3.50 = $35

Model 3: 4 miles per kw. That’s 137.5kw X $0.31 = $42.6

Long term use electric is no longer saving money vs gas.

At $0.21 a KwH and $3.50 per gallon, the Prius still cost more per mile.

$3.50/55mpg = 0.063636 per mile (Prius)
(75kw x .21)/310 = 0.050806 per mile (Model 3)

I get $0.13 per KwH of peak rate so I'm getting half the cost per mile of a Prius

 

[ℬête Noire]

At $0.21 a KwH and $3.50 per gallon, the Prius still cost more per mile.

$3.50/55mpg = 0.063636 per mile (Prius)
(75kw x .21)/310 = 0.050806 per mile (Model 3)

I get $0.13 per KwH of peak rate so I'm getting half the cost per mile of a Prius

Locally, yes. I think their point is SC pricing on trips versus current gasoline prices. Tesla raised the SC rates last year and pegged them at highway driving converting to about 60MPG or something for local retail gasoline pricing at the time, so it was around Prius per mile cost +/-. Retail gas prices have dropped lately, so it currently the Prius is lower in that use....although, dude, you're still driving a Prius.

 

[chronopc]

Locally, yes. I think their point is SC pricing on trips versus current gasoline prices. Tesla raised the SC rates last year and pegged them at highway driving converting to about 60MPG or something for local retail gasoline pricing at the time, so it was around Prius per mile cost +/-. Retail gas prices have dropped lately, so it currently the Prius is lower in that use....although, dude, you're still driving a Prius.

How do SC rates compare to other public EV charging?

 

[ℬête Noire]

How do SC rates compare to other public EV charging?

It varies a lot. For DC charging other networks are normally double price. For AC L2 it goes all the way from free (that includes Tesla Destination Chargers as well as a number of 6kW J-1772, NEMA 14-50s, etc) to often double price (or more!) for Blink, Ev-Go, and so on.

They mentioned they were able to access 21c/kWh L2 at work.

But key comparison for long distance trips, where you're charging a significant portion "on the road" is gasoline vs L3. Waiting on L2 to get back on the road is not really a feasible way to travel for most people, even though utilizing them at overnight stops at hotels and such is good supplement when traveling.

 

[chronopc]

It varies a lot. For DC charging other networks are normally double price. For AC L2 it goes all the way from free (that includes Tesla Destination Chargers as well as a number of 6kW J-1772, NEMA 14-50s, etc) to often double price (or more!) for Blink, Ev-Go, and so on.

They mentioned they were able to access 21c/kWh L2 at work.

But key comparison for long distance trips, where you're charging a significant portion "on the road" is gasoline vs L3. Waiting on L2 to get back on the road is not really a feasible way to travel for most people, even though utilizing them at overnight stops at hotels and such is good supplement when traveling.

I guess the only comparison that matters to me is other DC charging options. Gas for me is in the pass because I can't use that to power my Model 3.

 

[Knightshade]

I don’t use SC. I charge at work at $0.21 a kw. But I had planned a road trip next week. Now with my calculations. I’ll be getting equalivant to a 30mpg car

In the more expensive SC locations, yeah.

But the average new car in the US gets 24 mpg.

Meaning the Tesla is still >20% cheaper to fuel on roadtrips than average.

I
, it doesn’t make sense to take a Tesla on road trips anymore. A electric car shouldn’t be worse than a Prius.

Why?

A Prius is slow and handles like a brick. MPG is all it has going for it.

Say 550 miles.

Prius 55mpg that’s 10 gallons. X $3.50 = $35

Model 3: 4 miles per kw. That’s 137.5kw X $0.31 = $42.6

So, first, you mean kwh.

Second the problem with your math is the first 300 miles in the Tesla would've been 0.21 since you said that's what you pay when not using a supercharger.

Run the math that way and they both come out to $35.

But the Tesla of course is a ton nicer to actually take on the trip.

Long term use electric is no longer saving money vs gas.

Again you aren't making any sense.

You just told us "long term" you charge at work for .21 cents. So using .31 for any "long term" use is nonsensical.

4 miles per kwh, .21 cents per kwh long term for you, means $3.50 (the gallon of gas price you gave) gets you almost 67 miles for that $3.50.

Which beats even a Prius by about 20%...and beats by a lot the average new ICE car.


All of which ignores the tons of folks who have even cheaper home charging available to them who save even more over gas cars long term.

 

[ℬête Noire]

I guess the only comparison that matters to me is other DC charging options. Gas for me is in the pass because I can't use that to power my Model 3.

1) For you. Once you're committed to the purchase and if you've got no other vehicle. Sure. Not what ebmcs03 was talking about, though.
2) At that point no other DC charging options matter to you. None. At this point you can't even use those 50kW and down ChaDEMO stations out there, like Model S & X can, even if you had the $500 adaptor for it. Tesla hasn't released the software for it on the Model 3 (and the reasons for doing so are continuing to shrink, as the SC network grows and the ChaDEMO network largely doesn't)

 

[Derek Kessler]

I know we stop noticing the price of gas after a while because it no longer matters when you have a BEV, but the average price of gas across the US has been under $3.50 got a while now. It's under $2.00 a gallon here in Ohio!

That changes the MPG value calculation considerably, if that's what you care about. But if you bought a Tesla of any stripe because it would be cheaper than gas, you bought on faulty logic.

 

[ℬête Noire]

I know we stop noticing the price of gas after a while because it no longer matters when you have a BEV, but the average price of gas across the US has been under $3.50 got a while now. It's under $2.00 a gallon here in Ohio!

CA is around $3.25 average today.

 

[israndy]

As more people buy Electric the price of gas has to go down. But that cannot be sustainable so you'll see stations start to close. I do wonder what the last gasp of the oil industry will be like, and will it happen before our eyes or will the Koch brothers have long shuffled off this mortal coil by then. Wonder what industry evildoers will be in by then.

-Randy

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I don’t use SC. I charge at work at $0.21 a kw. But I had planned a road trip next week. Now with my calculations. I’ll be getting equalivant to a 30mpg car, it doesn’t make sense to take a Tesla on road trips anymore. A electric car shouldn’t be worse than a Prius.

Say 550 miles.

Prius 55mpg that’s 10 gallons. X $3.50 = $35

Model 3: 4 miles per kw. That’s 137.5kw X $0.31 = $42.6

Long term use electric is no longer saving money vs gas.

but then people might see you in a Prius

 

[ℬête Noire]

As more people buy Electric the price of gas has to go down. But that cannot be sustainable so you'll see stations start to close. I do wonder what the last gasp of the oil industry will be like...

1) The last gasp of the gasoline refinery industry. The larger oil & gas industry isn't going away in our lifetimes or even our children's lifetimes. Although it will very likely shrink to some extent, it'll be nothing like the collapse of the refinery business that's coming up shortly.
2) Yes, there is a lot of uncertainty because of those race conditions and divergent factors. The diesel fuel side is probably going to be even more violent, although it doesn't have the same retail business component.

 

[Knightshade]

I know we stop noticing the price of gas after a while because it no longer matters when you have a BEV, but the average price of gas across the US has been under $3.50 got a while now. It's under $2.00 a gallon here in Ohio!

That changes the MPG value calculation considerably, if that's what you care about. But if you bought a Tesla of any stripe because it would be cheaper than gas, you bought on faulty logic.

FWIW the folks coming to Teslas from other luxury or performance cars never get gas that cheap since they've had to use premium.... even places around here where it's at/around $2 they charge closer to 3 for premium. (usually 60-80 cents more per gallon compared to 87)

 

[Derek Kessler]

FWIW the folks coming to Teslas from other luxury or performance cars never get gas that cheap since they've had to use premium.... even places around here where it's at/around $2 they charge closer to 3 for premium. (usually 60-80 cents more per gallon compared to 87)

I came from a Honda Civic. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Sandiegodoug]

Part of car ownership is the pleasure you get driving it. My model 3 puts a smile on my face everytime I drive it. The fact that I can fuel up at home for cheap using my solar panels is just icing on the cake.

 

[chronopc]

CA is around $3.25 average today.

I'm hoping that CA invests more in solar and electricity prices will go down. Maybe that'll allow Tesla to reduce the prices of SC in the future.

 

[ℬête Noire]

I'm hoping that CA invests more in solar and electricity prices will go down. Maybe that'll allow Tesla to reduce the prices of SC in the future.

My understanding is that prices are like that because California has both a solar duck problem and a PG&E-making-out-like-regulated-bandits problem.

Maybe large scale work-located charging can help with the duck issue, the banditos problem is a whole different story best left for somewhere else.

 

[Atari2600]

Charging at home is like getting 4 home cooked meals and magically having an extra hour+ with your family vs gas stations or supercharger.

 

[chronopc]

Charging at home is like getting 4 home cooked meals and magically having an extra hour+ with your family vs gas stations or supercharger.

One of my favorite things about owning the Model 3 is never going to a gas station. I save so much time not having to wait at Costco for gas.

I'm excited for V3. That should greatly cut down the amount of time you need to stop during long road trips.