Is Tesla software limiting the launch and 0-60 times of the refreshed non plaid model s/x ?

[DayTrippin]

Yeah that’s bad if you think your M3 LR with boost is about the same as MS LR. Clearly the MS LR could be a beast of a car according to its stats, power to weight and gearing. It does shine above 40 but it could shine the whole way.

It’s too bad Tesla is holding it back and their software limiter seems to be too aggressive on it.

I also read that motors are usually limited by the battery. It’s usually not the other way around. So the fact that the LR has a decently bigger battery than the M3P, the motor should be able to push harder.

It has the battery for the Plaid but only needs to supply about 70% of the power. In a way it gives it a remarkable advantage for able to lay down run after run without fading. Two or three runs in a Porsche and it starts to fall flat.

I never say any appreciable falloff typically due to repeated runs or even holding up very well at low SoC. I ran at 40% SoC and still clocked a 3.4 0-60. It was built to supply the Plaid all it needed for juice and the LR barely needs to tap into it. So from that perspective, the car is pretty amazing. Just wished they hadn't restricted it so much. If they hadn't done that, it would have been the best bang for the buck, overall car in the Tesla lineup. Not many people will get in that car and punch it at 50 mph and say it isn't a quick car.

 

[Kan-O-Z]

It has the battery for the Plaid but only needs to supply about 70% of the power. In a way it gives it a remarkable advantage for able to lay down run after run without fading. Two or three runs in a Porsche and it starts to fall flat.

I never say any appreciable falloff typically due to repeated runs or even holding up very well at low SoC. I ran at 40% SoC and still clocked a 3.4 0-60. It was built to supply the Plaid all it needed for juice and the LR barely needs to tap into it. So from that perspective, the car is pretty amazing. Just wished they hadn't restricted it so much. If they hadn't done that, it would have been the best bang for the buck, overall car in the Tesla lineup. Not many people will get in that car and punch it at 50 mph and say it isn't a quick car.

I think the Plaid max’s out the battery so then the Plaid becomes battery limited. I bet if the Plaid if it had the bigger battery of the Sapphire it could also do 1200hp.

I wonder how close the LR comes to reaching the limits of the battery. I bet it’s gets higher than 70% in its peak range. If it doesn’t then it could be made to just through software.

It makes me wonder why the LR even has the launch mode with battery pre-conditioning if it’s never going to push the battery to its max.

So many questions that I wish we could get answers to by talking to some of the chief engineers

I agree the LR if not held back could be the best performance for the $. What’s also nice is it is 200lbs lighter than the Plaid which always helps handling and braking.

 

[DayTrippin]

I found drag strip mode, cheetah stance, none of that mattered a bit. Which in a way was great on the street. Just roll up to the light and you are ready for the hit. There wasn't anything I tired that could eek out any more performance out of it. At the same time, with the heavy car seat in, a bunch of crap in the car, 50% SoC, AC on max blast, stereo booming and still a good chance you'll still run under 3.5.

Drive the speed limits on the highways and I could get 360 real miles on a charge with the AC on as long as I never went over 70 mph. A lot to like about that car but just one thing I hated too much to keep.

 

[Kan-O-Z]

I found drag strip mode, cheetah stance, none of that mattered a bit. Which in a way was great on the street. Just roll up to the light and you are ready for the hit. There wasn't anything I tired that could eek out any more performance out of it. At the same time, with the heavy car seat in, a bunch of crap in the car, 50% SoC, AC on max blast, stereo booming and still a good chance you'll still run under 3.5.

Drive the speed limits on the highways and I could get 360 real miles on a charge with the AC on as long as I never went over 70 mph. A lot to like about that car but just one thing I hated too much to keep.

How do you think the Plaid range compares? Also did you SLR have the 19s or 21s?

Also makes you wonder if drag strip mode doesn’t matter then why do they have it? Is it just pure lazy, make the Plaid and remove a motor lol!

 

[n2mb_racing]

How do you think the Plaid range compares? Also did you SLR have the 19s or 21s?

Also makes you wonder if drag strip mode doesn’t matter then why do they have it? Is it just pure lazy, make the Plaid and remove a motor lol!

Plaid range is much lower. I can manage 265 miles with about 10 percent left. So maybe 300 miles if I am really lucky. I have the 21s.

 

[DayTrippin]

My LR was on 19’s. The Plaid is on 21’s. I haven’t done enough highway driving to get a good feel for what the range will be. A lot of my driving has been heavy, bumper-to-bumper traffic on the highway and then of course, some triple digit blass when the road clears up

I can tell you the energy consumption in town is pretty close to my LR. I do get on it more than I did with the LR but it is also rolling on fairly lightweight Signature wheels.

My LR got better efficiency than my model Y did but overall, this seems to be worse than the Y. I reset the trip meter when I bought it, and I am at 323 watt hours per mile. My Y was at 315, my LR was 275, and my 3 is 250. .

 

[Krash]

…At low speeds, the motor torque is limited by the max amps that can be sent through the motor…

This analysis is excellent except for the above statement. At low speeds the torque is limited by a max torque setting. The plaid doesn’t reach the max power limit for several seconds as shown in that graph.

…M3P…
Drive Ratio: 9:1 (front), 9:1 (rear)

…MSLR…
Drive Ratio: 7.56:1 (front), 9.04:1 (rear)

…MSP…
Drive Ratio: 7.56:1 (front), 7.56:1 (rear - 2 motors)

…It really does seem that MSLR is being held back by software…

Great find on the ratios. And…

…I think if it's being software limited …

We know that Teslas are software limited. We’ve known this for ten years. For at least five years we’ve known what those settings are called. They are called Max_Torque and Max_Power.

Am interesting argument to make (with data) would be that the plaid is traction limited in the sense that the contact patch can’t maintain part or all of a steeper fixed torque setting on most streets but could on a nice drag strip. A physicist could make that argument. Or someone recirding CAN data on various slippery surfaces.

Another interesting argument (again with data) would be that the plaid is gear limited in the sense that the linear torque line wouldn’t be linear if you could increase the max_torque farther on the current motors. Not sure you can test that unless you are a cryptographer and can change that max torque setting.

 

[Krash]

The fact that the LRS and previous PS have a flat spot on this graph means that those motors could handle more power but are Max_Power limited (i.e. battery amp limited). That the other motors don’t have the flat spot means that Tesla learned not to over engineer the motors for the currently available power. Pun intended.

If true, it would mean that unless Tesla has different motors for the roadster, the big performance difference between the S plaid and new roadster will be from torque settings, weight and maybe downforce traction, since aerodynamic effects are minimal at lower speeds.

 

[Kan-O-Z]

The fact that the LRS and previous PS have a flat spot on this graph means that those motors could handle more power but are Max_Power limited (i.e. battery amp limited). That the other motors don’t have the flat spot means that Tesla learned not to over engineer the motors for the currently available power. Pun intended.

If true, it would mean that unless Tesla has different motors for the roadster, the big performance difference between the S plaid and new roadster will be from torque settings, weight and maybe downforce traction, since aerodynamic effects are minimal at lower speeds.

The SLR is not on your graph so we can't say if it has a flat spot like the previous S Performance. My guess is the SLR power curve looks similar to the S Plaid but at 670hp instead of 1020hp.

 

[emailforbrett]

Don’t you find it a bit too coincidental that the Plaid broke the coveted 2 second barrier by exceeding it by 1/100 of a second? I bet there is more that can be released with a little $$ and an OTA update. My supposition is that when a true mass-produced car comes out that is verified quicker than the Plaid, which may be the Sapphire, we will see this option for the Plaid.

 

[Kan-O-Z]

Don’t you find it a bit too coincidental that the Plaid broke the coveted 2 second barrier by exceeding it by 1/100 of a second? I bet there is more that can be released with a little $$ and an OTA update. My supposition is that when a true mass-produced car comes out that is verified quicker than the Plaid, which may be the Sapphire, we will see this option for the Plaid.

It’s hard to actually break the 2 sec barrier. Most real life tests the Plaid is like 2.1/2.2sec. Even the 2,000hp Rimac only beats the Plaid by .1 or .2 seconds.

It’s the limit of the tires and grip. Now after 60mph, the Rimac destroys the Plaid.

That and the fact the Plaid is battery limited as well. The motors can max out the current draw from the battery.

 

[emailforbrett]

I agree it’s hard to break the 2.0 barrier. My point was Tesla broke it by 1/100 of a second. So the batteries and tires were just good enough to break the coveted 2.0 second barrier for the first time by a production automobile…by 1/100 of a second.

 

[WilliamG]

I agree it’s hard to break the 2.0 barrier. My point was Tesla broke it by 1/100 of a second. So the batteries and tires were just good enough to break the coveted 2.0 second barrier for the first time by a production automobile…by 1/100 of a second.

Well, not really. It’s not 0-60. It’s rollout-60.

 

[Kan-O-Z]

I agree it’s hard to break the 2.0 barrier. My point was Tesla broke it by 1/100 of a second. So the batteries and tires were just good enough to break the coveted 2.0 second barrier for the first time by a production automobile…by 1/100 of a second.

I keep thinking that I think Tesla has more room to improve the 0-60 of the LR more so than the Plaid. No reason the LR can’t match the times of the old P100D which had the same power. Oh and the LR is few hundred lbs lighter than the P100D.

But the LR doing 0-60 in like 2.5/2.7 sec doesn’t make the Plaid look so amazing

 

[DayTrippin]

I keep thinking that I think Tesla has more room to improve the 0-60 of the LR more so than the Plaid. No reason the LR can’t match the times of the old P100D which had the same power. Oh and the LR is few hundred lbs lighter than the P100D.

But the LR doing 0-60 in like 2.5/2.7 sec doesn’t make the Plaid look so amazing

Your are spot on and I've been saying this for over a year after I did tons of acceleration testing with my LR. I am over it now and just moved on to the Plaid to eliminate my frustration with the neutering the LR. I guess I'd call it neutergate. It is even worse since the car won't even do the factory claimed times.

 

[Kan-O-Z]

Your are spot on and I've been saying this for over a year after I did tons of acceleration testing with my LR. I am over it now and just moved on to the Plaid to eliminate my frustration with the neutering the LR. I guess I'd call it neutergate. It is even worse since the car won't even do the factory claimed times.

Still hoping they release the acceleration boost just like they did for 3/Y LR. I have an X LR and non folding bucket seats in 2nd row are no good for me! Maybe if we make enough noise they will offer something.

The other nice strategy about offering acceleration boost is that it’s not obvious to most buyers. When they buy an S or X they won’t think I can buy the LR and get boost. So many people I have talked to who bought 3s or Ys had no idea about boost. Only us “enthusiasts” do. The general buyer doesn’t.

What I’m saying is it won’t take away from Plaid sales. Don’t have to talk about LR with boost on the website or it’s specs. It’s a win win for Tesla. Extra money for them without sacrificing sales of their top car.

 

[n2mb_racing]

I keep thinking that I think Tesla has more room to improve the 0-60 of the LR more so than the Plaid. No reason the LR can’t match the times of the old P100D which had the same power. Oh and the LR is few hundred lbs lighter than the P100D.

But the LR doing 0-60 in like 2.5/2.7 sec doesn’t make the Plaid look so amazing

I'm not sure. I don't think it has the torque for a faster 0-60 with the two motors instead of three. It has the HP, though, due to the Plaid battery, which is why it is way faster than the P3D in the quarter mile.

 

[emailforbrett]

Well, not really. It’s not 0-60. It’s rollout-60.

True. …and that’s a whole nudder argument.

 

[Kan-O-Z]

I'm not sure. I don't think it has the torque for a faster 0-60 with the two motors instead of three. It has the HP, though, due to the Plaid battery, which is why it is way faster than the P3D in the quarter mile.

The P100D did 0-60 in 2.5 sec, with only 2 motors, more weight, same hp as the current LR.
Raven Performance did 0-60 in 2.3 sec, with only 2 motors, more weight, slightly more hp than the current LR.

Again no reason the LR can't do 0-60 in 2.5sec. It's lighter, has better battery/motors, and same hp as the older P100D. It's not adding up which is why so many of us feel it's purposely being limited. I'll be happy with S LR at 2.7 sec and X LR at 3.2 sec! It will also turn it into a quarter mile monster with the S LR in the low 10s (currently 10.8sec), X LR in the high 10s (currently 11.4 sec)!

They can shave off 1/2 sec. Common TSLA!

 

[Riceball777]

The P100D did 0-60 in 2.5 sec, with only 2 motors, more weight, same hp as the current LR.
Raven Performance did 0-60 in 2.3 sec, with only 2 motors, more weight, slightly more hp than the current LR.

Again no reason the LR can't do 0-60 in 2.5sec. It's lighter, has better battery/motors, and same hp as the older P100D. It's not adding up which is why so many of us feel it's purposely being limited. I'll be happy with S LR at 2.7 sec and X LR at 3.2 sec! It will also turn it into a quarter mile monster with the S LR in the low 10s (currently 10.8sec), X LR in the high 10s (currently 11.4 sec)!

They can shave off 1/2 sec. Common TSLA!

bases on the current model s long range trapping 129mph-130mph in the 1/4 mile i would say that the current model s has significantly more power that the 2020 model s performance raven. Tesla is simply limiting/nerfing the power output of the current long range model s from 0-70ish mph.